Nursery JBP. Landscape or bonsai?

[AcerAddict]

For several months, I've been scouring nurseries both local and online for a standard JBP with a decent start in order to make it a part of the Japanese garden I'm planning in our back yard. Finally found one in a 3-gallon pot at Wilson Bros. in Georgia and had it shipped here last week. It was pretty pot bound, so I slipped it into a 15 gallon the day after it arrived where it will stay until I decide what to do with it.

As for the question, is there any potential in this tree as a bonsai, or should I just use it for the original purpose of being part of my garden? It's 42" high (106cm) from the soil line, and has a 1" (2.5cm) trunk at the base. There's nothing particularly interesting about the trunk, so I figured it'll be my landscape tree, but thought I'd ask here first just to be certain. Pics attached.

 

[BobbyLane]

bit of a gamble buying from wholesale nurseries online. Because you never really know what youre getting. While we like to select trees with bonsai potential, theyre just selecting any old tree from a bunch of whats available, boxing it up and shipping it to you.

 

[Lorax7]

I think it can go either way, depending on what you want. JBP are quite bendy, so it’s not too late to put some movement in that trunk if you decide you want to train it as bonsai (or niwaki, if you decide to put it in as a landscape tree but give it some character anyway).

 

[AcerAddict]

bit of a gamble buying from wholesale nurseries online. Because you never really know what youre getting. While we like to select trees with bonsai potential, theyre just selecting any old tree from a bunch of whats available, boxing it up and shipping it to you.

I bought it fully expecting to use it as a landscape tree, so I was OK with them shipping me the first one they grabbed. I have two younger JBP seedlings that I'm currently growing out specifically for bonsai use. Just thought I'd gather some community input here first before making a final decision.

I think it can go either way, depending on what you want. JBP are quite bendy, so it’s not too late to put some movement in that trunk if you decide you want to train it as bonsai (or niwaki, if you decide to put it in as a landscape tree but give it some character anyway).

I surely want this to be a niwaki type of tree if it goes into the landscape. There are a lot of JBPs all over the coast here, especially in the Outer Banks, that have grown in all sorts of awesome shapes due to the constant winds and occasional tropical storms/hurricanes. I definitely don't want a plain Jane standard upright pyramidal look as part of my garden.

 

[19Mateo83]

There are a lot of JBPs all over the coast here, especially in the Outer Banks, that have grown in all sorts of awesome shapes due to the constant winds and occasional tropical storms/hurricanes.

Where exactly are these pines you speak of?? I could go for a week of spring fishing any tree hunting on the outer banks

 

[AcerAddict]

Where exactly are these pines you speak of?? I could go for a week of spring fishing any tree hunting on the outer banks

My wife and I went to a wedding in Corolla this past April and believe me, I wish I had the time to go yamadori hunting while we were there. Many of the nicest ones are on private property though. Unfortunately, back in the late 2000's, a huge portion of the JBPs on the Outer Banks had to be cut due to a bad pinewood nematode infestation (article link). They've bounced back nicely though from all the ones we saw up there.

I'm just north of Wilmington, and I talked to the owner of my favorite local nursery a month ago about the noticeable lack of JBPs for sale the last few years. He said he reached out to growers as far away as the western U.S. coast and not a lot of places seem to be growing them in large numbers for the nursery trade. He said they got a small shipment of trees in 3 gallon pots early last year, but they were all sold within a week. It's insane to me that a tree so well suited for life at the NC coast isn't vastly more available in this area. You can't go 10 steps without seeing a bald cypress or Japanese maple for sale around here, but JBP sightings are more rare than Bigfoot. Heck, I've even toyed with the idea of buying an acre or two around here and planting a ton of JBPs with plans for selling them in five or ten years.

 

[Paradox]

What species do you see available in nurseries?

Around here it's mostly mugo, scotts and eastern white and Bosnian pines in commercial nurseries. We do see some JBP but not usually as common as the others. Your area might be too warm for scotts and mugos though?

I think you could do either with the tree you posted. If for bonsai, it needs to grow a thicker trunk for my taste, but that will come with time.

 

[AcerAddict]

What species do you see available in nurseries?

Around here it's mostly mugo, scotts and eastern white and Bosnian pines in commercial nurseries. We do see some JBP but not usually as common as the others. Your area might be too warm for scotts and mugos though?

I think you could do either with the tree you posted. If for bonsai, it needs to grow a thicker trunk for my taste, but that will come with time.

Honestly, you don't see many pines in nurseries around here at all. A few fir and spruce (like the Dwarf Alberta Spruce), but that's really it. We have the native Longleaf Pine growing literally everywhere naturally. The whole south central to eastern part of the state is filthy with them, LOL. They make terrible bonsai though unfortunately, with needles that can grow to a foot long or even more. Another common native pine (but almost equally unfit for bonsai) is the Loblolly pine, which grows a poker straight trunk, and has few branches until it reaches ridiculous heights.

You are correct that we get a little too warm here (less than an hour from the SC border) for Mugo and Scotts pines, which is a shame, because I personally like Mugos a lot as bonsai. However, our zone is OK for the Austrian, Ponderosa, and Virginia Pines, the last of which I don't ever think I've seen as a bonsai. The coast of NC is basically perfect for growing Japanese Black Pines, which again leaves me stunned that more nurseries don't have them available more frequently. JBPs are very tolerant of salt air and sandy soil, both of which we have in abundance here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you do see them around as landscape trees, but I'm still puzzled about the allegedly recent shortage of them in nurseries.

 

[Shogun610]

Honestly, you don't see many pines in nurseries around here at all. A few fir and spruce (like the Dwarf Alberta Spruce), but that's really it. We have the native Longleaf Pine growing literally everywhere naturally. The whole south central to eastern part of the state is filthy with them, LOL. They make terrible bonsai though unfortunately, with needles that can grow to a foot long or even more. Another common native pine (but almost equally unfit for bonsai) is the Loblolly pine, which grows a poker straight trunk, and has few branches until it reaches ridiculous heights.

You are correct that we get a little too warm here (less than an hour from the SC border) for Mugo and Scotts pines, which is a shame, because I personally like Mugos a lot as bonsai. However, our zone is OK for the Austrian, Ponderosa, and Virginia Pines, the last of which I don't ever think I've seen as a bonsai. The coast of NC is basically perfect for growing Japanese Black Pines, which again leaves me stunned that more nurseries don't have them available more frequently. JBPs are very tolerant of salt air and sandy soil, both of which we have in abundance here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you do see them around as landscape trees, but I'm still puzzled about the allegedly recent shortage of them in nurseries.

How far from mountains , Virginia pine , pitch pine , hornbeams, oaks , crab apple , American persimmon, elm etc should be on your radar. Atleast if I was down there. And I’m already a fiend for those species for bonsai up in PA. I didn’t have the funds at the time ( I think 600-700) but I was very close to getting this Virginia Pine bonsai , Bjorns purchased it though so it’s in a good home atleast

 

[Paradox]

Honestly, you don't see many pines in nurseries around here at all. A few fir and spruce (like the Dwarf Alberta Spruce), but that's really it. We have the native Longleaf Pine growing literally everywhere naturally. The whole south central to eastern part of the state is filthy with them, LOL. They make terrible bonsai though unfortunately, with needles that can grow to a foot long or even more. Another common native pine (but almost equally unfit for bonsai) is the Loblolly pine, which grows a poker straight trunk, and has few branches until it reaches ridiculous heights.

You are correct that we get a little too warm here (less than an hour from the SC border) for Mugo and Scotts pines, which is a shame, because I personally like Mugos a lot as bonsai. However, our zone is OK for the Austrian, Ponderosa, and Virginia Pines, the last of which I don't ever think I've seen as a bonsai. The coast of NC is basically perfect for growing Japanese Black Pines, which again leaves me stunned that more nurseries don't have them available more frequently. JBPs are very tolerant of salt air and sandy soil, both of which we have in abundance here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you do see them around as landscape trees, but I'm still puzzled about the allegedly recent shortage of them in nurseries.

Yea, it's good here for them too and while I do see them in the nursery trade here, it's not as common as the others I mentioned. But it might be because of the things I mentioned that kill them here.

There is a feed store about 20 minutes from me that has a beautiful big mugo next to the entrance to the place.

 

[Shibui]

Almost any tree can become a bonsai. Just depends how long you want to wait and your skill level.

Most bonsai are developed by grow and chop. Most of what we initially see is redundant and can be classed as sacrifice growth. No point wiring and bending sacrifice trunks unless you need the practice.


Here's what I see as one possible future for this as bonsai.
Lowest branch will become the entire bonsai. It will still require several grow and chop cycles to develop trunk bends and branching. (blue line)
Most of the current trunk will be chopped (red line) at some stage. When depends on how the lower branch is developing, trunk thickness, etc

Roots are currently a tangled mess as are most commercial landscape trees progressively slip potted from smaller to larger pots but roots can be sorted out by untangling those that can and chopping those that can't be untangled.

Landscape planting is quick and easy. Developing good bonsai takes much more time and some skill. Pines take even more skill as they won't bud reliably on older wood.
Future is yours to decide.

 

[Potawatomi13]

is there any potential in this tree as a bonsai

Good or bad potential in any tree depending. If cut back to lowest small branch chance to escape boring strait trunk exists. Otherwise could be yard tree.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I think it can go either way, depending on what you want. JBP are quite bendy, so it’s not too late to put some movement in that trunk if you decide you want to train it as bonsai (or niwaki, if you decide to put it in as a landscape tree but give it some character anyway).

HA! Personally have found 1/2" JBP nearly stiff as Iron bar. Subject tree is 1"+. No short bends possible without notching or breaking.

 

[AcerAddict]

Landscape planting is quick and easy. Developing good bonsai takes much more time and some skill. Pines take even more skill as they won't bud reliably on older wood.
Future is yours to decide.

Thank you for the analysis and sketch on the photo. That's a potential design that I didn't see at first. Based on all the helpful feedback here though, I think I'll use this tree for my Japanese garden as originally intended. Definitely going to add some artificial bends and chops here and there over the next several years to give it a unique shape as niwaki.

In the meantime, I'll focus on developing my two younger JBP trees.

 

[naleshin]

Honestly, you don't see many pines in nurseries around here at all. A few fir and spruce (like the Dwarf Alberta Spruce), but that's really it. We have the native Longleaf Pine growing literally everywhere naturally. The whole south central to eastern part of the state is filthy with them, LOL. They make terrible bonsai though unfortunately, with needles that can grow to a foot long or even more. Another common native pine (but almost equally unfit for bonsai) is the Loblolly pine, which grows a poker straight trunk, and has few branches until it reaches ridiculous heights.

You are correct that we get a little too warm here (less than an hour from the SC border) for Mugo and Scotts pines, which is a shame, because I personally like Mugos a lot as bonsai. However, our zone is OK for the Austrian, Ponderosa, and Virginia Pines, the last of which I don't ever think I've seen as a bonsai. The coast of NC is basically perfect for growing Japanese Black Pines, which again leaves me stunned that more nurseries don't have them available more frequently. JBPs are very tolerant of salt air and sandy soil, both of which we have in abundance here. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you do see them around as landscape trees, but I'm still puzzled about the allegedly recent shortage of them in nurseries.

Regarding loblolly, I don't think it should be completely dismissed. It can be decandled the same way JBP can and seems it can be even stronger than it too. Check out this if you haven't already: https://crataegus.com/2021/05/14/unusual-pine-to-decandle-loblolly/

Of course most landscape/nursery stock loblolly likely aren't suitable off the bat, but I think the from-seed/seedling methods we employ for shohin JBP readily apply to loblolly as well (getting movement crazy close to the root base, keeping needles down low for buds later on, and blowing up a sacrifice branch while "poodling" it to control vigor/shading)