Nursery Juniper and boxwoods advice

[gfreak]

Hey y'all!

imgur.com/a/fgUa2wV

I was at the local nursery today and these caught my eye. Were these decent pickups? (for reference they were about $12 each)

Ended up getting this Green mound Juniper and 2 boxwoods, thoughts on them for material?

thoughts on possible style directions on where to go? Or anything I should do the the immediate future? Was planning on letting them grow in those pots until Spring (unless y'all say something different for em would be better lol).

also, Does that 1st boxwood trunk look ok? It looked different then the other but wasn't sure what was going on there lol.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Hey y'all!

imgur.com/a/fgUa2wV

I was at the local nursery today and these caught my eye. Were these decent pickups? (for reference they were about $12 each)

Ended up getting this Green mound Juniper and 2 boxwoods, thoughts on them for material?

thoughts on possible style directions on where to go? Or anything I should do the the immediate future? Was planning on letting them grow in those pots until Spring (unless y'all say something different for em would be better lol).

also, Does that 1st boxwood trunk look ok? It looked different then the other but wasn't sure what was going on there lol.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Your juniper is a thuja Accidentalis eastern white cedar . Surprised to see it in Texas . They are used in bonsai but mainly wild collected trees . The wood is arguable the most rot resistant wood in North America especially in a wet environment , the foliage is rather course . Does get nice green in summer but gets fairly ugly olive to almost dead looking in winter . Not trying to be negative just truthful . Play to the trees strength very cold hardy tough tree best larger sized with deadwood . To ofset the foliage. Easy ti grow . Do not I repeat do not allow the tree to dry out in mid summer heat water loving tree . . Easy to bend . Very forgiving to heavy pruning used as hedge . Will not predictably bud back in mature wood . Keep some green I have no boxwood experience but they are used small leaves forgiving tree is all I know

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

spelling correction, your first tree is a Thuja occidentalis, spelled with an "o". The genus name is usually used as a common name in bonsai circles. In landscaping circles it is sometimes called Arbor Vitae. The closest botanical relatives to the Thuja are the Chamaecyparis obtusa - the Hinoki cypress. Chamaecyparis is technically "false cypress". Hinoki - Chamaecyparis obtusa has been used often as bonsai especially in Japan since bonsai was invented. Most care comments about pruning and styling for Hinoki apply in identical manner to Thuja. Except with Thuja, you should plan a larger tree. The more coarse foliage really requires a larger scale tree. @Frozentreehugger is correct with everything he said. But do additional reading, most general bonsai sites will mention Hinoki or Hinoki false cypress, take in what they say too. For emphasis, I need to repeat, Thuja WILL NOT BACKBUD on wood that has developed brown bark. You will eventually need to replace branches in the future, often a decade down the road. Any little green sprouts on the main trunk, keep them even if they are not where you want a branch "today". Keep them pruned short, but keep them green, because in 10 or 20 years you will need them to replace branches that had gotten too long, too old and leggy. The alternative is to learn to graft. You can graft young scions into the trunk to create branches to replace branches that have gotten too leggy .

By the way, if you have an interesting Thuja trunk, it is possible to graft Chamaecyparis obtusa foliage onto a Thuja trunk. The two species are graft compatible. The Thuja does grow faster than the Hinoki, so most grafting is Hinoki foliage onto Thuja trunks. Not the other way around.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

spelling correction, your first tree is a Thuja occidentalis, spelled with an "o". The genus name is usually used as a common name in bonsai circles. In landscaping circles it is sometimes called Arbor Vitae. The closest botanical relatives to the Thuja are the Chamaecyparis obtusa - the Hinoki cypress. Chamaecyparis is technically "false cypress". Hinoki - Chamaecyparis obtusa has been used often as bonsai especially in Japan since bonsai was invented. Most care comments about pruning and styling for Hinoki apply in identical manner to Thuja. Except with Thuja, you should plan a larger tree. The more coarse foliage really requires a larger scale tree. @Frozentreehugger is correct with everything he said. But do additional reading, most general bonsai sites will mention Hinoki or Hinoki false cypress, take in what they say too. For emphasis, I need to repeat, Thuja WILL NOT BACKBUD on wood that has developed brown bark. You will eventually need to replace branches in the future, often a decade down the road. Any little green sprouts on the main trunk, keep them even if they are not where you want a branch "today". Keep them pruned short, but keep them green, because in 10 or 20 years you will need them to replace branches that had gotten too long, too old and leggy. The alternative is to learn to graft. You can graft young scions into the trunk to create branches to replace branches that have gotten too leggy .

By the way, if you have an interesting Thuja trunk, it is possible to graft Chamaecyparis obtusa foliage onto a Thuja trunk. The two species are graft compatible. The Thuja does grow faster than the Hinoki, so most grafting is Hinoki foliage onto Thuja trunks. Not the other way around.

@Leo in N E Illinois . I hate spelling can you tell . have you personal experience grafting thuja . I am aware the 2 species are compatible . But my interest is more grafting thuja to thuja . There are several nursery cultivars with very small compact growth . My inspiration for this is wild collected trees . As you said foliage location . ( if your going to graft use something better ) but also my experience is that great wild trees are often . Wind and cold tortured and have exquisite small tight foliage . This is for all practical purposes impossible to maintain . New growth in healthy trees is large . Anyone I have seen attempt to dwarf it some withholding water technique is normally suggested . You create very nice firewood . By the way Arborvitae is French rough translation from Aboriginal . Name for the tree . Which means Tree of life . The aboriginals used the tree to cure French explorers of scurvy . Foliage and Cambium is rich in vitamin C . But it is incorrectly stated in multiple resources this is reason for the name . . It’s more complex trees long life ability to withstand harsh conditions . Rot resistance . Medicinal properties . And is spiritual to aboriginals . Sorry to babble

 

[gfreak]

Oh awesome! nice to find out it wasn't a juniper lol. Is that common for nurseries to miss-label that kinda thing?

I appreciate the responses! As far as grafting and all that, that is waaaay beyond my knowledge atm. These are the first buys to really try and turn something into a Bonsai haha.
Thanks a ton for the tip on the Cypress too! I did get a book as well and just checked the section for the white cedar, and that's what it says there too.

You say to keep the sprouts green, do I do that by pruning the ends when they get too long? Or is there another way

Also, what would y'all recommend in terms of timing for pruning/repotting. Wait till Spring, repot. Then wait till the following spring to prune?

thanks!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Oh awesome! nice to find out it wasn't a juniper lol. Is that common for nurseries to miss-label that kinda thing?

I appreciate the responses! As far as grafting and all that, that is waaaay beyond my knowledge atm. These are the first buys to really try and turn something into a Bonsai haha.
Thanks a ton for the tip on the Cypress too! I did get a book as well and just checked the section for the white cedar, and that's what it says there too.

You say to keep the sprouts green, do I do that by pruning the ends when they get too long? Or is there another way

Also, what would y'all recommend in terms of timing for pruning/repotting. Wait till Spring, repot. Then wait till the following spring to prune?

thanks!

First you need design goals how big what style . I repot in spring . This can be done in fall . Some collect wild trees in fall I do not . Harsh winter here so I give them all the time to recover . Before the cold I can get . A standard 3 part bonsai soil will work well . I would increase organics and or water holding ability in your hot climate . They grow vigorously in the sun . But semi shade after repot and in the heat of mid summer . The standard pruning advice is to pinch the growing tips thru out the season . But this is a refinement technique. To develop the tree . . Use a larger pot consider sacrificial prances and or leader . It’s deadwood ability helps here . Allow it to grow and then cut it back you can pinch the tips of small shoots near the trunk to Slow them down . Be carefull to not shade out the interior of the tree and said growth . A good general practice in development is a cut back in early to mid fall then another in early fall research what a leaf is . What appears to be a fond of leaves is one leaf . If I was starting with young material I would bend aggressive . To create trunk movement . Consider styles that are harder to find in nature like cascade . They are apical dominant that can be used as a advantage

 

[sorce]

Accidentalis's Happen.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Frozentreehugger]

First you need design goals how big what style . I repot in spring . This can be done in fall . Some collect wild trees in fall I do not . Harsh winter here so I give them all the time to recover . Before the cold I can get . A standard 3 part bonsai soil will work well . I would increase organics and or water holding ability in your hot climate . They grow vigorously in the sun . But semi shade after repot and in the heat of mid summer . The standard pruning advice is to pinch the growing tips thru out the season . But this is a refinement technique. To develop the tree . . Use a larger pot consider sacrificial prances and or leader . It’s deadwood ability helps here . Allow it to grow and then cut it back you can pinch the tips of small shoots near the trunk to Slow them down . Be carefull to not shade out the interior of the tree and said growth . A good general practice in development is a cut back in early to mid fall then another in early fall research what a leaf is . What appears to be a fond of leaves is one leaf . If I was starting with young material I would bend aggressive . To create trunk movement . Consider styles that are harder to find in nature like cascade . They are apical dominant that can be used as a advantage

Sorry prune early summer then agai early fall

 

[rockm]

You "juniper" isn't an arborvitae, nor is it a juniper. Looks to me like a Leyland cypress--a cross breed between Monterrey cypress and Nootka cypress. It's Common landscape screening material most everywhere in the U.S. Tough as nails, sold extensively at nurseries across the county, but it's extremely bad bonsai material unfortunately.

 

[AJL]

To settle the argument Thuja foliage smells fruity when you crush it ( a bit like pineapple) while Leylandii doesnt smell so good- a bit like cat urine!

 

[gfreak]

Accidentalis's Happen.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

Hah!

Appreciate all the tips y'all! I will do that crush test as soon as I get back home from work tonight.

If it is the leyland cypress, does it have any real value to practice any techniques on?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

There

To settle the argument Thuja foliage smells fruity when you crush it ( a bit like pineapple) while Leylandii doesnt smell so good- a bit like cat urine!

there is no argument as such I have no knowledge of LC . Was not aware there was a tree that was so similar to Thuja I am a look so confident that @rockm with his experience would not have made such a statement without being very confident . . All along I was wondering what a thuja is doing in Texas

 

[gfreak]

To settle the argument Thuja foliage smells fruity when you crush it ( a bit like pineapple) while Leylandii doesnt smell so good- a bit like cat urine!

So I just got home and crushed it up, and it actually did smell like pineapple!

 

[AJL]

Forget about trying Leylandii as theyre very coarse growing only suitable as a very quick growing hedge if you hate your neighbours!

 

[michaelj]

I am normally not a fan of buying boxwoods from big box stores. There are much better values in people's gardens, on Craigslist ("free hedges, just come and dig them out"), and in the neglected corners of wholesale nurseries.

That said, the first boxwood has really nice potential as a shohin. If that was mine - and I'd buy that off you for $12 in a heartbeat - would be to keep those dead stumps forever, and chop the trunk. I marked where I'd make the cuts. Then let it grow the rest of the summer and in late winter - in Houston I'd be doing this around the 3rd or 4th week of February - repot it in a pot maybe 3" or less deep. This will be a beautiful shohin in 2-4 years if you stay on top of it. It has nice but gentle movement, plenty of branches to work with, and probably some nice strong roots. On that note, feel free to start exposing more trunk now, until you hit some surface roots. The nebari may be a few inches below your soil line.



The second boxwood I would plant in the ground and hedge prune at 18" or 24" for a good 3 or 4 years, then dig it up and see what you have. But I say that because I have hundreds of trees. If you have only a few and really want to work it, I'd say look at chopping that one too. The thing you need to watch for in these fellas is the triple joint, where trunk and two branches all join in one place. Those tend to swell up and give you ugly reverse taper. Make chops there or lose one of the branches.

 

[gfreak]

I am normally not a fan of buying boxwoods from big box stores. There are much better values in people's gardens, on Craigslist ("free hedges, just come and dig them out"), and in the neglected corners of wholesale nurseries.

That said, the first boxwood has really nice potential as a shohin. If that was mine - and I'd buy that off you for $12 in a heartbeat - would be to keep those dead stumps forever, and chop the trunk. I marked where I'd make the cuts. Then let it grow the rest of the summer and in late winter - in Houston I'd be doing this around the 3rd or 4th week of February - repot it in a pot maybe 3" or less deep. This will be a beautiful shohin in 2-4 years if you stay on top of it. It has nice but gentle movement, plenty of branches to work with, and probably some nice strong roots. On that note, feel free to start exposing more trunk now, until you hit some surface roots. The nebari may be a few inches below your soil line.

View attachment 454300

The second boxwood I would plant in the ground and hedge prune at 18" or 24" for a good 3 or 4 years, then dig it up and see what you have. But I say that because I have hundreds of trees. If you have only a few and really want to work it, I'd say look at chopping that one too. The thing you need to watch for in these fellas is the triple joint, where trunk and two branches all join in one place. Those tend to swell up and give you ugly reverse taper. Make chops there or lose one of the branches.

View attachment 454301

this is great! appreciate the advice on it! Are you saying now would be a good time to do those cuts? Even so late into the summer? (although i guess Summer in houston still's got a while...lol)

also on a note about the "juniper". I found a label that had been just under the soil. It says that it's a "Thuja Hybrid". and "Green Giant Arborvitae". which is apparently a hybrid of "Thuja plicata (Western Red cedar) and Thuja standishii (Japanese Arborvita)" according to a quick google search on it.

 

[michaelj]

In Houston, absolutely. It's not too late to make those cuts. I'm in Southern California, zone 10a, and I'll still be doing chops on my boxwoods through the end of this month. You're either in 9a or 8b. That's close enough for a boxwood. Boxwood is evergreen and grows year round in our climates, but more importantly, you still have more than a month before it starts noticeably slowing down. That's plenty of time on a young healthy boxwood. You can chop them even in the dead of winter, but you'll get better results if you chop them when they are still pushing growth, because you'll want them to pop some buds before they go semi-dormant. Get them in fresh soil once the risk of frost has passed and you'll see them explode next Spring.

 

[gfreak]

In Houston, absolutely. It's not too late to make those cuts. I'm in Southern California, zone 10a, and I'll still be doing chops on my boxwoods through the end of this month. You're either in 9a or 8b. That's close enough for a boxwood. Boxwood is evergreen and grows year round in our climates, but more importantly, you still have more than a month before it starts noticeably slowing down. That's plenty of time on a young healthy boxwood. You can chop them even in the dead of winter, but you'll get better results if you chop them when they are still pushing growth, because you'll want them to pop some buds before they go semi-dormant. Get them in fresh soil once the risk of frost has passed and you'll see them explode next Spring.

Awesome! when i'm off work next i'll take some more time to look at it and research shohin and look at making some cuts. appreciate the help!

Also i brushed away some soil on the 1st boxwood to see some of the surface roots, didn't go very far cause i wasn't sure about disturbing some of the smaller roots that i found. But this is what it looked like just an inch or so lower.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Hah!

Appreciate all the tips y'all! I will do that crush test as soon as I get back home from work tonight.

If it is the leyland cypress, does it have any real value to practice any techniques on?

Even if it’s a LC you have 12 $ in it . Like you said use it as a learning mule wire it learn how much you can bend it try styling it in different styles take pics and compare after your might be surprised which looks. East . Chop it see how a tree responds create dead wood for practice . Bend chop cut hack learn

 

[Frozentreehugger]

There of course is deals at box stores . After all neglected plants make good bonsai . And definitely look into garden plants . Never hurts to ask if you can dig something up .as for the nursery stock I have learned . The real value is in quality . You s don’t need to go to a bonsai nursery . Although that is not a bad idea . I frequent a quality family run business they specialize in hard to find plants dwarf cultivars . And such there stuff is maybe 10 to 20 percent more $ . Then a garden Center . You get healthy well taken care of plants knowledge of the exact plant and cultivar care advice like disease and bugs to watch for in the area . For that plant . Like every one I’m frugal wait for the sale events . In the journey to a bonsai 10 years down the road the . The quality on sale 129. $ tree is a much better deal than the 29.99 $ box store tree Be mindful of a lot of nice cultivars of specific trees are grafted . Learn how to tell . This is not all bad but a ugly graft will not go away .