Nursery Juniper

[maroun.c]

Scored this one from nursery today.
I'm tempted to remove the trunk on the left and work with the crazy movement on the right side trunk. Yet on second thought I see very interesting similar overall movement in both trunks which might also work for a twin trunk. If I go with twin trunk I'm missing the apex which I'll need to grow or maybe redirect a branch as its empty in the middle. What are ur thoughts. I'm in a rush to half bare root this year and complete move to bonsai next year or year after. Would u work on branches now or after it's in bonsai soil completely.

 

[keri-wms]

Maybe graft new branches exactly where you want them? Either with existing foliage or source some itiogawa etc?

If you did that you’d have thin branches / apex that can be wired more easily too. I seem to get about a 90% success rates with about 2-5mm diameter scions, sealed in a clear mini ziplock bag, with a small ball of damp moss. Tie the top of the bag up to the trunk etc to stop it moving in the wind or drooping and filling with water.

Oh and scalpel blades have a better success rate for me than the grafting knife, but that would depend on your sharpening skills! Also I tried previously with approach grafts but it was a waste of time.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

@keri-wms Maroun is from Lebanon, I think itoigawa would be hard to obtain there. Phoenicean junipers come close to itoigawa and maybe can be found closer.

I would wire the tree first, then maybe do a repot but it looks healthy enough to stay in the pot for some time. Cleaning the trunk and wiring it might cause dormant buds to grow, which will produce new branches and new options.

 

[maroun.c]

Looked again at the tree and I see multiple buds popping from the trunk and branches in the empty area in the middle which can be grown I guess to create an apex. Dont want to think how many years that would be.
What donu guys think about single VS twin trunk or is it too early to think about that for now?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

How long the branches take to grow depends on how healthy you can keep it. I have a chinese juniper that started some fresh branches two years ago. Right now they're moving towards secondary and tertiary branching, in two more years they should be long enough to be wired decently.

For now, I would go for the double trunk. And I would plan on removing the branch moving to the left in the second picture, because it crosses other branches. But! Instead of growing entirely new branches from the start, you could use the branch you remove as a donor; take the finer branches off and graft them back on to your trunk.
I made some instructions on grafting, with pictures. I know some people love the ziplock bags, I love parafilm because it breathes.

What you'll need:
- 25cm of parafilm per graft (if they are as small as mine, it's always better to have more parafilm!)
- A super sharp knife with a straight edge.
- A piece of wood.
- A scion (branch to graft onto another).


Pre-stretch the parafilm. This is going to take a few tries, it's difficult material to begin with, over time it gets easier. That's why it's better to have more.


Wrap the scion loosely in parafilm, make sure it closes all over. Wrap halfway over the previous winding. If you leave open spaces, just use another piece of parafilm to patch the hole; it will stick to itself when you stretch it.


I gently scraped off the old scale foliage. Then make a nice clean long cut on one side.


Make a significantly smaller cut on the other side.


Here's a side view.


Make one clean cut in the branch, down to the 'white' wood. Insert the scion so that the 'long' side of your cut is facing towards the trunk or branch. This cut was a little on the big side. I feel fine making and documenting mistakes.


Wrap heavily with parafilm, so that it closes the cut on the branch with the scion pressed between it. If needed, because of the wind or other weather, add a layer of wire (I prefer aluminium wire because it's softer).
I did not add wire in the picture below, because this juniper is sheltered and the bushy exterior foliage catches all the wind. Also, just because I was being lazy.


When you wrap with parafilm in the second to last step, make sure you don't move the scion. Some people use needles to keep it in place, and only pull on the parafilm when it's on the back side of the receiving branch. If you pull on the front side, where your scion is, it's going to move out of place and you can't see it through the parafilm. The scion will die in a month or two, and only when you unwrap it, it's going to show you what happened.

In my back yard, the scions start growing through the parafilm after two and a half months. I don't touch them in the mean time. When they show good growth, I cut the parafilm on the scion at the sides and let it alone for another two or three weeks so it can breathe. I leave the parafilm on the trunk until winter, it comes off easily when it's colder and I don't want to mess up the tissue that's healing.

The grafts in my example are very likely to not hold. I did a crappy job and it's too early in the year. But I wanted to practice a little.

 

[keri-wms]

@Wires_Guy_wires Nice guide! I’d use parafilm too but I couldn’t get it when I tried a few years back. (Edit, it’s all over ebay now, time I had some!)

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for the info. Will experiment with that for sure.

 

[maroun.c]

Couple questions on the grafts,
-why do we have to wrapp the foliage of the graft ? I realize we have to wrapp the base where the graft is inserted to keep in place but why the other side?
- when is the best time to graft? You mention 2.5 months for the scion to start growing and then leaving parafilm till winter so I assume you graft in spring ?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I wrap the scion because parafilm keeps moisture inside. The graft needs time to heal and if the foliage dries out, then it dies before the connection with the main tree is complete. Parafilm is a breathable film, but it only breathes well when it's stretched.
The best time to graft is the spring, when they start growing. This is when there's the most activity in the tissue, and the best healing.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for the info. Will experiment with couple grafts while removing that crossing branch hopefully theyll hold

 

[keri-wms]

Worth remembering that juniper often withdraws sap (allows the cambium to die) in a line below any branches that are removed, so to keep things growing and heal the grafts faster it might be better to remove big branches later? Depends where they are I suppose, but even if grafting I would think you should still be able to repot it to remove/reduce the compost in the root ball. Seems to me the post-repotting semi shade aftercare etc is conveniently a good environment for grafts?

 

[maroun.c]

Still considering the possibilities for this tree and I'll be half bare rooting and repotting into a bonsai soil in 3-4 weeks as spring comes in.
I played with some angles today and if the side becomes the front and its planted at an angle I'll get a nice start for a cascade and I can push or grow the apex a bit forward. It looks nice but km.loosing the sight of the nice trunk and texture even if I look at the cascade from the side where the front trunk will hide the other.
I dont have easy access to quality or half decent trunk material and was happy to find a nice trunk to play with this is why I want to have a plan that shows the trunk or maybe the dual trunk if I can pull a nice design with both trunks.
Appreciate your suggestions.

 

[maroun.c]

Repotted yesterday as I could see drainage was affected and looking at tree pot ratio it was clear roots were going to be a mess. 2 weeks back I reported a similar juniper which had elbowing thick roots which took out most of the football as I cut a few off.
So for this one i teased the roots carefully which took around 3 hours. Following each thick root that elbowed from pot side or bottom back to tree centre proved nerve racking and I had to bare root around 60 percent of the roots vs the 30 percent I had in mind.
My question is about those thick roots. Some have few ramifications before the end soft roots in pic. Can I reduce those already or do i wait for more roots to develop higher before I can reduce the thick roots.
Unfortunately I bare rooted more than I wanted and tree was still too high for the pot so I'm hoping the higher roots wont die off. I severed very few roots if any and believe was the most careful I can be.




Thinks safe to reduce at blue orange or red at this stage or wait for more roots higher on next repot . I reduced till blue on all similar roots


Tree had to go to the back of the pot as well to be able to fit the roots. I will correct in next repot with root reduction and maybe a bigger pot although I'd like to have a smaller pot. Appreciate any advice on care for.coming period. When to wire and prune and repot again to take out remaining soil. So far my plan is :

Shade and multiple watering per day for 2 weeks. Prune and style end of autumn and repot either next late spring or in 2 years ?
Thanks

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Multiple waterings only when the soil has dried. Otherwise you will kill it by over watering.

Don't make plans for repotting and styling unless you're 100% sure it's alive.

As for after care.. If you removed a lot of roots, then light shade for 2-3 weeks would be good. If you removed very few roots, then I'd say light shade for a week, maybe less.

If the foliage starts turning dull or grey, or not vibrant green like it is now, then put it back in the shade and protect it from wind. I'm trying to save one like that right now, because I did waaaay too much work within a season.

 

[maroun.c]

Multiple waterings only when the soil has dried. Otherwise you will kill it by over watering.

Don't make plans for repotting and styling unless you're 100% sure it's alive.

As for after care.. If you removed a lot of roots, then light shade for 2-3 weeks would be good. If you removed very few roots, then I'd say light shade for a week, maybe less.

If the foliage starts turning dull or grey, or not vibrant green like it is now, then put it back in the shade and protect it from wind. I'm trying to save one like that right now, because I did waaaay too much work within a season.

Sure will check soil before repotting. Should I kist it during the day to keep foliage moist ?
Removed very few roots, basically just pruned a bit of the long thick roots to shorten but very conservatively and only on few roots. This is why it didn't fit well in the rather large pot for its size.
Any idea why the full color on it and few if my other junipers even before repoting . Could it be from.bad soil they were in. Is it usually a sign of under or over watering ?
Thanks

 

[HorseloverFat]

How long the branches take to grow depends on how healthy you can keep it. I have a chinese juniper that started some fresh branches two years ago. Right now they're moving towards secondary and tertiary branching, in two more years they should be long enough to be wired decently.

For now, I would go for the double trunk. And I would plan on removing the branch moving to the left in the second picture, because it crosses other branches. But! Instead of growing entirely new branches from the start, you could use the branch you remove as a donor; take the finer branches off and graft them back on to your trunk.
I made some instructions on grafting, with pictures. I know some people love the ziplock bags, I love parafilm because it breathes.

What you'll need:
- 25cm of parafilm per graft (if they are as small as mine, it's always better to have more parafilm!)
- A super sharp knife with a straight edge.
- A piece of wood.
- A scion (branch to graft onto another).
View attachment 288406

Pre-stretch the parafilm. This is going to take a few tries, it's difficult material to begin with, over time it gets easier. That's why it's better to have more.
View attachment 288407

Wrap the scion loosely in parafilm, make sure it closes all over. Wrap halfway over the previous winding. If you leave open spaces, just use another piece of parafilm to patch the hole; it will stick to itself when you stretch it.
View attachment 288408

I gently scraped off the old scale foliage. Then make a nice clean long cut on one side.
View attachment 288409

Make a significantly smaller cut on the other side.
View attachment 288411

Here's a side view.
View attachment 288412

Make one clean cut in the branch, down to the 'white' wood. Insert the scion so that the 'long' side of your cut is facing towards the trunk or branch. This cut was a little on the big side. I feel fine making and documenting mistakes.
View attachment 288413

Wrap heavily with parafilm, so that it closes the cut on the branch with the scion pressed between it. If needed, because of the wind or other weather, add a layer of wire (I prefer aluminium wire because it's softer).
I did not add wire in the picture below, because this juniper is sheltered and the bushy exterior foliage catches all the wind. Also, just because I was being lazy.
View attachment 288414

When you wrap with parafilm in the second to last step, make sure you don't move the scion. Some people use needles to keep it in place, and only pull on the parafilm when it's on the back side of the receiving branch. If you pull on the front side, where your scion is, it's going to move out of place and you can't see it through the parafilm. The scion will die in a month or two, and only when you unwrap it, it's going to show you what happened.

In my back yard, the scions start growing through the parafilm after two and a half months. I don't touch them in the mean time. When they show good growth, I cut the parafilm on the scion at the sides and let it alone for another two or three weeks so it can breathe. I leave the parafilm on the trunk until winter, it comes off easily when it's colder and I don't want to mess up the tissue that's healing.

The grafts in my example are very likely to not hold. I did a crappy job and it's too early in the year. But I wanted to practice a little.

WOW! .. I, for one, found this VERY helpful/informative. Thank you for taking the time to share that.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Sure will check soil before repotting. Should I kist it during the day to keep foliage moist ?
Removed very few roots, basically just pruned a bit of the long thick roots to shorten but very conservatively and only on few roots. This is why it didn't fit well in the rather large pot for its size.
Any idea why the full color on it and few if my other junipers even before repoting . Could it be from.bad soil they were in. Is it usually a sign of under or over watering ?
Thanks

If there is a dull color on junipers it could mean a bunch of things.
Since you're in such a different climate than I am, I suspect spider mites could be an issue for you. Those can be identified with a piece of paper; just put the paper underneath a branch and shake the branch. If there are tiny spider-looking animals running around (less than 1mm) then it's spider mites. They are brownish like coffee with milk, or white. They also make tiny webs all over the foliage.

Other dullness can be caused by both over- as well as underwatering, but also the pH of your water or your soil. It's hard to say without seeing the entire plant and the soil it's in.
When I handled junipers badly, they are dull for a year and then go back green again.

But also procedures like using copper sulfate or neem oil can change the appearance of the color. After a good neem oil treatment, my trees look fresh green. That green slowly fades away. If I would compare one plant, four weeks apart (without knowing that I applied oil) then I'd say the freshly sprayed one was way healthier. But that's just the effect of the oil on the cuticle wax.

Again, I don't believe there are bad soils. Your plants have lived their entire lives in that soil, and they did just fine. If the soil was really bad, the plants would not be old. They would be dead.
We water bonsai trees every day. I water nursery containers with 'bad' soil once a week or maybe even once every two weeks. Sometimes that's still too much water! Is that the soils problem, or is it my problem? I think it's my personal problem of not thinking about what kind of soil my trees are in.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for the explanation. It ain’t bad sil per day as ur say as this plants lived in it indeed. Yet I’m in a more humid area I guess and my back garden doesn’t get lots of wind and maybe 4 hours of mid day sun only so that’s why y trees soil is always moist and roots struggle. Maybe watering much less and every few days as u mention would have solved it. Yet it’s clear that the roots were circling and elbowing a lot so one more year would have made it worse. Yet this juniper was in soil and some pumice which made it a it easier to clean.
I spray insecticide every 3-4 week (very lightly on my bonsais) in spring and summer so hope that will help with insects but will also check as u say.
thanks again for all the info