Nursery pot questions

[heisenberg]

When you have a pre-bonsai growing in a nursery pot, do you perform any manipulation of the plant (wiring, pruning etc), or just let it grow?

Do the soil/substrate requirements differ for a pre-bonsai vs bonsai? How about fertiliser requirements?

Cheers!

 

[Alain]

Well, that some amazingly general questions you've got there...

Kind of hard to answer without writing a book without knowing: which tree? Where do you live (climate)? What do you call 'nursery pot'? A bonsai specialized nursery or Walmart?

May be the best would be, chronologically: Get a tree. Post a picture. Ask again.

 

[heisenberg]

Well, that some amazingly general questions you've got there...

Kind of hard to answer without writing a book without knowing: which tree? Where do you live (climate)? What do you call 'nursery pot'? A bonsai specialized nursery or Walmart?

May be the best would be, chronologically: Get a tree. Post a picture. Ask again.

Japanese Maple, recently purchased - the only one I could find was from a generic garden store which has already planted it in a bonsai pot.

It's approx 1.5ft tall and trunk is roughly 1/3 inch. Plenty of thin branches at present. Must only be 5yrs younger or less. I'll post some pictures tomorrow- nighttime at the moment. What I'm really not sure about is when to start removing branches to give it a 'typical' bonsai appearance - I suspect not until it has grown larger.

I live in New Zealand, it's winter at the moment and lowest temps where I live would be 5 deg Celsius overnight. Most winter days usually 10-15 Celsius. Occasional rain, mostly just overcast but occasional sunny days.

A nursery pot to me is essentially a bucket- deep enough to allow roots to grow and trunk to thicken.

Given that the tree is so thin at the moment my preference will be to repot in the upcoming spring back into a nursery pot to allow the trunk to grow. Would be interested to know what you think regarding ideal substrate for it.

 

[ConorDash]

I'm also looking for this info, as is like to propagate a wisteria via cutting and plant/develop that. What to plant it in, size of pot etc. It's spring/summer at the moment for me so I think it's a good time.

Welcome by the way, plenty to learn for us all here

 

[heisenberg]

Hi and thanks ConorDash,

I found this video which has a lot of the information I was seeking:

But doesn't offer much in the way of when to start training the pre-bonsai tree

 

[johng]

Very general but maybe these guidelines might help...

Continue to grow any material in the ground or some type of grow out container until the trunk and root base are the size and caliper you invision for your tree... And any chops are healed. Typically you only want to gradually move a plant into increasingly larger conatiners... Going from a 4" pot to a three gsllon container can cause a root problem due to all the soil without roots in it... 4" to 1 gall to 3 gal to 7 gal....just an example your sizes may vary.

Once the trunk is ready it is not necessary to move the tree into a bonsai container for branch development. In my opinion we move trees into bonsai containers far toooo soon. But, once the trunk is ready and I'm no longer looking for unbridled growth, i begin moving the root ball toward a more shallow and flat shape in preparation for going into a bonsai container sometime in the future....repot into smaller and shallower container.

With deciduous material...we typically dont start training branches until the trunk is finished....otherwise you end up with branches that are out of scale with the tree....too large.

The secret to branch development is pruning. Pruning, pruning....did I mention pruning! Hedge Prune( prune roughly to a silhouette)multiple times during the season....at the end of the growing season do a more selective pruning to get rid of the ugly branches...rinse and repeat for a couple growing seasons and you will have yourself a fine piece of material that can now become a bonsai!

Conifers and junipers are developed very differently... Lots of folks have descrbed their development in detail on this site...just do a little research.

 

[johng]

As I reread my post, I realized it doesnt talk about root work at all... That occurs during trunk development time. May often include using a board under the roots to achieve a nice flat radial root base....again there are many posts here on that topic do a little digging and you should find plenty of info.

 

[sorce]

The substrate doesn't matter...
As long as you water it properly.

It's well worth a look in...and maybe even a little digging.
Cuz sometimes...
You'll see bark and what looks like well draining soil on the top, when the roots are in solid clay.

This stuff looks like it's watering well, but it's either rolling off the clay, or the clay stays wet mush.
Either way...not good.

I have crap watering habits, I'm going to start removing trees from Nursery soil straight away, to get them into soil I am familiar with. Napa 8822.

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

When you say substrate @sorce you mean the compost that the propagated branch is put in to after layering, of whatever kind?
Cos I was just looking for info on what is a good general, all purpose compost for this job.

 

[GrimLore]

I'm also looking for this info, as is like to propagate a wisteria via cutting and plant/develop that. What to plant it in, size of pot etc. It's spring/summer at the moment for me so I think it's a good time.

Welcome by the way, plenty to learn for us all here

Wisteria cuttings where I live must be taken and started before they have leaf on them. As far as substrate to start cuttings in many people use different things. I have gone to a mix I make here to start anything in Nursery pots, including bare rooted trees, and seeds, in early Spring when it is still pretty chilly at night. My mix is Fafard premium topsoil, course sand with silica, and horticultural perlite(coarse with many size pieces) I mix 1/3 each and it drains good and promotes good root growth. As long as kept damp, not wet I find it works for me. The ingredients vary a lot depending on who you talk to but it always boils down to a good draining mix.

Grimmy

 

[sorce]

When you say substrate @sorce you mean the compost that the propagated branch is put in to after layering, of whatever kind?
Cos I was just looking for info on what is a good general, all purpose compost for this job.

I like 50/50 perlite and peat moss.

It keeps them stable, so they can root.

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

Wisteria cuttings where I live must be taken and started before they have leaf on them. As far as substrate to start cuttings in many people use different things. I have gone to a mix I make here to start anything in Nursery pots, including bare rooted trees, and seeds, in early Spring when it is still pretty chilly at night. My mix is Fafard premium topsoil, course sand with silica, and horticultural perlite(coarse with many size pieces) I mix 1/3 each and it drains good and promotes good root growth. As long as kept damp, not wet I find it works for me. The ingredients vary a lot depending on who you talk to but it always boils down to a good draining mix.

Grimmy

I like 50/50 perlite and peat moss.

It keeps them stable, so they can root.

Sorce

Some good info, thank you guys. I might get some perlite just for general use cos it seems to be a good all rounder for most things...
Its a shame, all these mixes that are mentioned, its not like its easy to just go get them. I'd have to order online and wait to arrive and stuff. Quite annoying.
Btw, I think I will air layer that Elm of mine Sorce, just gonna wait till next year spring to do so. I know that is kind of "wasting" a lot of time of growing that the Shohin could do but I want to go through a winter with it and experience/learn from that, before anything else.

 

[GrimLore]

Its a shame, all these mixes that are mentioned, its not like its easy to just go get them.

The coarse sand should be available at a hardware/building supply in a 50 pound bag around 5USD and the topsoil you should be able to get a premium bag for 10-15USD at a garden/farm supply place. Like I said mix them with perlite 1/3 each, inexpensive and works ok for most.

Grimmy

 

[ConorDash]

The coarse sand should be available at a hardware/building supply in a 50 pound bag around 5USD and the topsoil you should be able to get a premium bag for 10-15USD at a garden/farm supply place. Like I said mix them with perlite 1/3 each, inexpensive and works ok for most.

Grimmy

Oh yeh that stuff I've even got, it's the more unique stuff like perlite. Yeh none of it is expensive, just the means of acquiring the more unique ones that gardeners wouldn't need but bonsai artists would.
Thanks for info

 

[GrimLore]

perlite

Perlite should be easy to get - try Summerhill http://www.summerhillgardencentre.co.uk/facilities/

Grimmy

 

[sorce]

@LanceMac10

You WOULD like a dude stalling on an airlayer!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

Perlite should be easy to get - try Summerhill http://www.summerhillgardencentre.co.uk/facilities/

Grimmy

Cheers based in UK too, I'll definitely have a look.

 

[ConorDash]

@LanceMac10

You WOULD like a dude stalling on an airlayer!

Sorce

Starting to become a bully! I'll do it, don't worry . I ordered moss and root hormone today.

 

[LanceMac10]

Definitely @source is a B-nut bully! He shamelessly plays on my sensitivities......

Hehehee......what's better than a stick in a pot? Two sticks in two pots!!!

It's ok....it's the internet!!

 

[ConorDash]

Definitely @source is a B-nut bully! He shamelessly plays on my sensitivities......

Hehehee......what's better than a stick in a pot? Two sticks in two pots!!!

It's ok....it's the internet!!

At the moment my plans of finding some yamadori to experiment and do stuff with are failing so I might be air layering my elm quicker.. Giving Sorce just what he wants!