Nursery Pots VS Grow Bags

[エドガー]

My YT feed has been flooded with fabric grow bags lately, and I too have been very interested in them for their claims for making better root systems and non-circling roots, via air pruning.

Is it really true that plants are healthier and grow bigger and faster with fabric grow bags and makes better roots??
The way I see it, the roots would just escape into the ground, lol.

My biggest concern is though... it looks like it would dry out very quickly and/or would add much much more work/time/frequency in watering. Perhaps 2-3x more frequent watering (which sounds like a lot, esp if it already takes me 2 hours to water my plants on my watering days).

 

[エドガー]

I might try “Warrior” pots next time I need nursery pots though... they have the same rigidity as the standard heavy duty nursery pots, but with the benefit of more drainage and oxygen (no “air pruning” ability of fabric pots though, since the walls/sides are still solid plastic).

Anyone out there that like Warrior pots or have experience with them?

 

[Palmer67]

I might try “Warrior” pots next time I need nursery pots though... they have the same rigidity as the standard heavy duty nursery pots, but with the benefit of more drainage and oxygen (no “air pruning” ability of fabric pots though, since the walls/sides are still solid plastic).

Anyone out there that like Warrior pots or have experience with them?

I just use Colander pots which give plenty of air flow from all around the pot. From the pictures I've seen, the Warrior pots would probably work okay.

 

[Stormwater]

I might try “Warrior” pots next time I need nursery pots though... they have the same rigidity as the standard heavy duty nursery pots, but with the benefit of more drainage and oxygen (no “air pruning” ability of fabric pots though, since the walls/sides are still solid plastic).

Anyone out there that like Warrior pots or have experience with them?

You could just drill lots of holes in the black plastic ones

 

[エドガー]

Haha...I was thinking of that.

 

[Coppersdad]

I'm going through the first summer of using colanders to develop some species of conifers and deciduous trees. I'm also using the inner baskets of "salad spinners" as baskets. I've been able to pick up both items by the armload at the local Goodwill. The price of each ends up being less than that of new colanders at our local Asian market.
It may be a bit soon to judge the efficacy of the root pruning, but, I'm not watering any more frequently then I was prior to this method potting. My soil is 1/3 akadama, 1/3 pumice and 1/3 volcanic rock. So, there is great drainage.
Now, the Seattle area is not a summer in central Alabama or Florida but we do have a number of weeks where the temp is in the high 80's or more. And, I suspect it's less humid here than it it is in many other areas. These trees seem to grow as well as they have in previous years. Can't say they appear to grow any better, but it will be a while until I can really look at the roots.

 

[PABonsai]

I started building my own grow boxes last year. I use 4 pieces of cedar (I use cedar because I like the look and figure it will last a little longer than pine or fir), the size depends on how big a box I need, and I glue/nail them to make a square. Then I staple ordinary fiberglass window screen over the bottom and then a layer of hardware cloth (Galvanized Wire Mesh) over that for strength (the screen by itself it not strong enough). Then cut triangles (just cut corners off of the same wood as the sides) that I attach to the bottom corners (feet, adds strength to the box and bottom). They are really quick and easy to make (not to mention cheep), and I can drill holes anyplace I need to attach wire for securing the tree.
Nice part is I can make them virtually any size I might need. I think my biggest is 16" (40cm) across. I expect if I make any much bigger than that I will probably have to add some extra support across the bottom.

How do you decide on the size? I know "It depends" but what I mean is literally, how do you make the decision on what size to make/use? (i.e. what rules of thumb or limits do you use when deciding)

 

[amatbrewer]

How do you decide on the size? I know "It depends" but what I mean is literally, how do you make the decision on what size to make/use? (i.e. what rules of thumb or limits do you use when deciding)

It is a very technical process...I look at the tree and think to myself "how much room do I think the roots might need" and go slightly bigger just in case.
It really does depend on how fast the species grows, how long I expect to leave it on the box, etc. When in doubt make the box a little bigger.
I doubt that helps you much but that really is what I do.

 

[Vance Wood]

Look up the Vance Woid grow boxes.
They are made of wood and plastic pet screen.
If you could come up with a non plastic screen you would be styling.
Maybe try regular metal window screen in them.

They are virtually nylon and fiberglass.

 

[Vance Wood]

It is a very technical process...I look at the tree and think to myself "how much room do I think the roots might need" and go slightly bigger just in case.
It really does depend on how fast the species grows, how long I expect to leave it on the box, etc. When in doubt make the box a little bigger.
I doubt that helps you much but that really is what I do.

You're looking at the concept backwards. The idea behind my invention shown in my avatar, is to encourage a fine root system that produces fine fibrous feeder roots so that cutting the tree back down to go into a bonsai is accomplished. I do not know what the intention of the root bag is but if it is not for making fine roots not a tangle of larger and largely useless fat support roots then what you are doing is a wast of time. In bonsai you are always looking at ways to reduce a root system down into a fine functional root system that is as small as possible within reason. I have been growing bonsai in this manner since 1985ca. I have also found that pond baskets are not as effective because their contact with the ground hinders ther effectiveness and I know nothing of the grow bags other than what my mind thinks they must do being familiar with burlap bag growing, which is not a bonsai effective process.

 

[PABonsai]

You're looking at the concept backwards. The idea behind my invention shown in my avatar, is to encourage a fine root system that produces fine fibrous feeder roots so that cutting the tree back down to go into a bonsai is accomplished. I do not know what the intention of the root bag is but if it is not for making fine roots not a tangle of larger and largely useless fat support roots then what you are doing is a wast of time. In bonsai you are always looking at ways to reduce a root system down into a fine functional root system that is as small as possible within reason. I have been growing bonsai in this manner since 1985ca. I have also found that pond baskets are not as effective because their contact with the ground hinders ther effectiveness and I know nothing of the grow bags other than what my mind thinks they must do being familiar with burlap bag growing, which is not a bonsai effective process.

So how do you decide on size of growing box? I'm at the point where I have some seedlings, collected seedlings and a couple nursery bought things in nursery pots and am unsure how to progress into the next pots. That's why I asked the question above, how do you decide on a box size? Is it based on trunk thickness? Current root dimensions?

I assume the general idea is that when young they should be root pruned and repotted every year. If that's the theory then is there any use having a pot any larger than the final?

 

[amatbrewer]

I don't disagree with any of what you said.
I think the difference is the objective. I use my grow boxes when I am trying to encourage rapid growth and a lateral root system. Or to put it another way a poor but necessary alternative to field growing, because planting in the ground is for the most part not an option for me.

 

[Coppersdad]

So how do you decide on size of growing box? I'm at the point where I have some seedlings, collected seedlings and a couple nursery bought things in nursery pots and am unsure how to progress into the next pots. That's why I asked the question above, how do you decide on a box size? Is it based on trunk thickness? Current root dimensions?

I assume the general idea is that when young they should be root pruned and repotted every year. If that's the theory then is there any use having a pot any larger than the final?

In some ways, size of a grow box tough question to answer. With collected material and even some trees you have grown from seedlings, you will have somewhat of an idea of the size of the root ball. Do you want space for growth or are you pleased with the current size?

With nursery trees in containers, it can be more difficult. Look at the size of the container the tree has been in. Depending on the species, I make a decision on if and how much I may want to reduce the size of the root ball. Often, I may take a peek without disturbing the soil to see how pot bound the roots are. It's possible then to estimate what size the next container needs to be. I am generally conservative when starting and will not reduce a root ball by more than 1/3 the first time I pot the tree.

As far as root pruning and re-potting every year, my goal is most often to build trunk and nebari in young trees. I tend to leave them alone to encourage growth. I believe a re-pot and root prune is stressful on the tree and I don't want a young, growing tree stressed.

It is a lot of fun and quite inexpensive to build your own grow boxes.

 

[ysrgrathe]

It's

You could just drill lots of holes in the black plastic ones

It's not the same! Unless you put a ton of holes I bet you will still get circling roots. The good bags completely eliminate circling.

 

[ysrgrathe]

I have also found that pond baskets are not as effective because their contact with the ground hinders ther effectiveness and I know nothing of the grow bags other than what my mind thinks they must do being familiar with burlap bag growing, which is not a bonsai effective process.

They are similar to the pond baskets but the holes are microscopically small. There are at least a couple of kinds. In one, the root grows out, hits air and is pruned. This kind, like with pond baskets, will result in roots growing through the pot if there isn't air on the other side. The other kind I believe prunes mechanically: it's non flexible and it chokes the root off. These are supposed to work even in ground (I've never tried). I suspect there is a third kind: garbage products that aren't designed well and don't actually work! Personally I would stick with brands like Smartpot and Root Pouch that have scientific research backing their claims.

For very young trees I think they do produce good fine feeder roots and are very cost effective. But for more developed trees your rigid planter design would have many benefits.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Perhaps question already dealt with whether grow bags are made of plastic then not really a thing vs nursery pots. In personal space wood boxes use too much space vs nursery pots. Several nursery pots have been cut down with rim of pot set lower helping handling and stiffness. Also these stand up better on tables/benches than bags do in wind or snow conditions. Also am using several terra cotta bulb pots as growing containers drilling several extra drainage holes with masonry drill in shallow H20 for cooling. Available up to 14 1/2" size. Be sure to use spacers under pot for drainage.

 

[Shibui]

It's not the same! Unless you put a ton of holes I bet you will still get circling roots. The good bags completely eliminate circling.

And your point is?
I don't see circling roots as a problem. When I go to reduce the roots to fit into a bonsai pot I simply cut off all the circling roots - No problem.
Even when using grow bags the roots will still need to be pruned back to fit into a bonsai pot unless your bag is less than 2/3 of the bonsai pot? So either way I still need to root prune - or am I missing something?

I have used the root pruning bags in the ground. You end up with a root ball full of roots all with swollen ends where the bag constricted the roots which then callussed and swelled up

 

[Vance Wood]

And your point is?
I don't see circling roots as a problem. When I go to reduce the roots to fit into a bonsai pot I simply cut off all the circling roots - No problem.
Even when using grow bags the roots will still need to be pruned back to fit into a bonsai pot unless your bag is less than 2/3 of the bonsai pot? So either way I still need to root prune - or am I missing something?

I have used the root pruning bags in the ground. You end up with a root ball full of roots all with swollen ends where the bag constricted the roots which then callussed and swelled up

Well just going after the roots you don't want in reducing down a root system to fit into a bonsai pot will work with some trees but not all trees. Also using a device like this for bonsai the concept demands that the device be above ground. If the roots escape into the ground you create another problem as has been pointed out.

 

[ysrgrathe]

And your point is?
I don't see circling roots as a problem. When I go to reduce the roots to fit into a bonsai pot I simply cut off all the circling roots - No problem.
Even when using grow bags the roots will still need to be pruned back to fit into a bonsai pot unless your bag is less than 2/3 of the bonsai pot? So either way I still need to root prune - or am I missing something?

No. I don't really think these products are best for bonsai culture. They are better than plastic pots for the nursery trade because those trees will never get root pruned. I like the idea of using the small bags on seedlings because those are so vigorous that they inevitably overgrow their pot, but have no experience. If you look at the results posted earlier in the thread they look good to me though!

 

[cmeg1]

Im putting these air layers in the grow bed this Autumn.
I may use Rootpouch bags.They prune by entrapment pruning and can lift back out of the ground without shocking rootsytem or growth.Even after several years as they sell anything from 1-5 year bags I believe.
I was going to plant on tiles,but honestly like the Rootpouch method of ground growing.Can still plant on tiles INSIDE the pouches!!
At least a good experiment!
A 3-4 year fabric sounds optimal really,for what I want to do.Definately want entrapment pruning and not air pruning for this technique.

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