Nursery stock pines?

[James W.]

What would be the issues with buying a nursery stock Scots pine with 1-2" caliper and cutting it off above the 1st whorl of branches? Essentially treating the existing trunk as if it had been grown for a sacrifice? Or other pines and spuces?
Hypothetically, of course. And assuming cheap enough.
Seems to me that would get me 2 or 3 years ahead of starting one the "right" way, from seed.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Nebari not grown for bonsai purposes and will likely be flawed.
Chances of grafted material.
Pine chops don't heal quickly.

Growing from seed is slow, but allows control from the get go.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Scots pines are rarely grafted but I do see they've been grown in tiny pots in the nursery trade.
This ruins the root base, but if you do a proper selection at a nursery you'd be able to counter that.

Most spruces have that issue too.

Have a look and give it a go! Over here we can find 3-4 year old mugo pines for 2,50 a piece, scots for less and JBP for 6 euros.

 

[James W.]

Scots pines are rarely grafted but I do see they've been grown in tiny pots in the nursery trade.
This ruins the root base, but if you do a proper selection at a nursery you'd be able to counter that.

Most spruces have that issue too.

Have a look and give it a go! Over here we can find 3-4 year old mugo pines for 2,50 a piece, scots for less and JBP for 6 euros.

I have been doing some mugo pines and really can't see that some other species would be a radically different concept. And yes, some of my mugos have horrible root bases.
I will keep my eyes open. If nothing else I have learned something.

 

[Adair M]

What would be the issues with buying a nursery stock Scots pine with 1-2" caliper and cutting it off above the 1st whorl of branches? Essentially treating the existing trunk as if it had been grown for a sacrifice? Or other pines and spuces?
Hypothetically, of course. And assuming cheap enough.
Seems to me that would get me 2 or 3 years ahead of starting one the "right" way, from seed.

That is a valid technique. Choose one branch at the whorl to be a branch, and another to be the second section of trunk. Then look at the next whorl, and do the same thing.

Often, you will find you need to change the potting angle so that the tree emerges from the soil at an angle. Do that early in the training phase, and you can develop good nebari.

 

[Warlock]

That is a valid technique. Choose one branch at the whorl to be a branch, and another to be the second section of trunk. Then look at the next whorl, and do the same thing.

Often, you will find you need to change the potting angle so that the tree emerges from the soil at an angle. Do that early in the training phase, and you can develop good nebari.

what is this called.. ?? i want to look it up..

 

[Adair M]

what is this called.. ?? i want to look it up..

John Naka, Bonsai Techniques I, page 143-149. “How to start Japanese Black Pine Bonsai”.

 

[Potawatomi13]

what is this called.. ?? i want to look it up..

John Naka, Bonsai Techniques I, page 143-149. “How to start Japanese Black Pine Bonsai”.

Learned answer. Also could be called learned aesthetic instinct.

 

[leatherback]

Over here we can find 3-4 year old mugo pines for 2,50 a piece, scots for less and JBP for 6 euros.

I really need to go shopping with you!

 

[leatherback]

Seems to me that would get me 2 or 3 years ahead of starting one the "right" way, from seed.

There is your flaw. You are thinking too small. If you are going for this, which yes, works fine, Go our and look at big pines. 2-4 inch caliper. Reduce to 2ft and you have great taper and a solid more mature trunk. Then do as Adair suggests. And check for grafting and decent nebari. Considering you are saving 6 years of ground growing, you might take a few weeks to visit more than one grower. In fact.. If you have someone field growin, explain what you are looking for. They might have a bunch of damaged trees that they cannot sell to nurseries and you could get them for very little.

 

[Vance Wood]

There is your flaw. You are thinking too small. If you are going for this, which yes, works fine, Go our and look at big pines. 2-4 inch caliper. Reduce to 2ft and you have great taper and a solid more mature trunk. Then do as Adair suggests. And check for grafting and decent nebari. Considering you are saving 6 years of ground growing, you might take a few weeks to visit more than one grower. In fact.. If you have someone field growin, explain what you are looking for. They might have a bunch of damaged trees that they cannot sell to nurseries and you could get them for very little.

You think nursery trees have horrible root systems wait until you start your way down the Yamadori trail.

 

[leatherback]

You think nursery trees have horrible root systems wait until you start your way down the Yamadori trail.

I don't. Why do you think I do?

 

[Adair M]

Learned answer. Also could be called learned aesthetic instinct.

???

 

[James W.]

Thank you for the replies, all.
What made me think of this was some 3-4" caliper Scots pines at Lowes, but I thought "wow, that scar would never heal"
Also, top of the root bases are pretty deep. I will need to go to my friendly nursery where they will actually let me knock a plant out of its pot and dig down a bit. On the other hand, I've never been actually asked to leave at Lowes . . . hmmm. Yet.

 

[sorce]

asked to leave

Lol! Get there! Have REAL goals!

I'm sure there is 1 tree out there somewhere, that is excellent 2feet deep down into the pot, but for me, there is a tipping point, way before you have to dig too far, that ensures digging isn't worth it. Since what happens above all that digging, usually negates the "good" you usually find that low.

At least, the odds remain in your favor if you move more quickly through more trees you can more easily inspect the nebari of.

We must accept the fact that we will never find one gem.

We can find 3 semiprecious stones and polish one into acceptable.

Sorce

 

[Ply]

Over here we can find 3-4 year old mugo pines for 2,50 a piece, scots for less and JBP for 6 euros.

I know this is a two year old thread.. But where?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I know this is a two year old thread.. But where?

Pflanzmich.de has reasonably priced scots pines and used to have JBP. Someone on marktplaats is/was selling scots pines for cheaps.
Mugos can be found in nearly every nursery, the smaller nurseries usually sell them for a couple euros. Intratuin and larger chains have bigger mugos but those are also more expensive.