Oak Tree Starter Help

[TJV]

Thanks...I think that is good way to go. I was actually wondering if I should cut the tap root or not.

 

[bonsai barry]

Are you doing any pruning? It looks like you are keeping the height in check.

Yes, I'm pruning it while its in the ground. If you look at the third photo (the latest) you can see that I cut about 1/4 of it back which really made it look a lot wider. I can't recall at what point I cut the tap root. I probably cut it back in thirds during three transplants.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

TJ, You are living in the home town of one of the best bonsai associations in the United States. They meet once a month on the first Sunday, in the afternoon. It is not very expensive to join and what you can learn is astounding. They offer classes for novices and you would benefit greatly from it. Most every meeting has a guest speaker and sometimes it is a big name speaker. They publish a newsletter that is full of information also.

Come to the next meeting and find out what it is about. Do a web search for the Triangle Bonsai Society. Fiddle around there and you'll find the details of when and where the meetings are. Guests are welcome and you are welcome.

Look forward to seeing you at the next meeting.

 

[TJV]

Good to know...I will try and make it.

 

[FourMileMarc]

TVJ,

I would strongly recommend pruning the tap root early on if you are going to use it for bonsai. Most Oaks send tap roots to china early on with little or no surface rooting for many years. You want the surface rooting for container growing. Even if it is in a container to start, cut the tap root. If you wait you are going to have a solid coiled wooden block at the bottom. Cut the lower end of the tap root so as to not disturb the soil too much.

Only do this in the late winter, it is too late now.

Barry, isn't that Q. Lobata your growing?

Cheers

Marc

 

[bonsai barry]

TVJ,

Barry, isn't that Q. Lobata your growing?

Cheers

Marc

Good call. It is a valley oak, I was careless in my posting. Thanks for the correction.

 

[rockm]

Oak care

Whenever the subject of oak bonsai comes up, the Californians chime in. California oaks are truly wonderful trees and make excellent bonsai subjects, however, their care and maintenance are drastically different than that for Eastern US oak. If you keep a Quercus alba as someone keeping quercus agrifolia, you will wind up with a dead tree. If you top prune an eastern white oak like a California live oak, you will get enormous leaves, as white oaks tend to produce oversized leaves along with new shoots.

Root pruning can be tricky with eastern oaks if you're dealing with a tree that's more than five years old or so. Cutting the tap root can lead to such a tree's death if you're too aggressive. Two thirds is about max for first pruning. Gradually cut the rest back--aiming for a flush cut--over five years (repotting every two--not every year).

DiscusMike--I had a photo posted on another site. That site seems to have gone to digital heaven, so I'll have to find the photo again. I repot the oak very infrequently, as it's well over 200 years old. I root prune ever 5-7 years (I've had the tree 12 years and it's been root pruned twice--once when I got it to remove field soil and once since then). Root pruning removes alot of the "engine" that produces development on top.

The tree is in a deep (8 inches) wide (20 inches or so) pot. This is not only because the pot works esthetically (tree has a 9 inch nebari), but the soil volume provides a buffer against temperature extreme (summer AND Winter) and allows deeper root run for the tree.

Also might note that the oaks I've worked on have a symbiotic relationship with fungal growth on their roots, much like pines. The deeper pot encourages that relationship. I get mushroom growth in the late spring, as the fungus grows. (Mycorrhizal relationships come in a few different forms, but the fungal growth in the root mass allows the tree to better utilize soil nutrients.)

 

[rockm]

Attila Happy to be back

Attila,

The last year or so has been challenging, so I've largely dropped off Internet bonsai boards. I've found some time here and there to begin writing again.

I've missed the online bonsai community quite a bit.

 

[TJV]

All the advice is great...its hard to decide what I should do. I think BonsaiNut had it right when he suggested I establish my priority, which is to see the tree survive. Taking that in mind, I will probably just plant it straight to the ground (or repot in bigger pots) without pruning. I will prune the tap root gradually after a year or so?

(Actually I think that more or less incorporates everyones advice)

 

[bonsainotwar]

Glad to hear you guys discussing oaks,i have a scarlet oak in my backyard with a huge base and nice movement,i whacked it down last spring,then lower this spring,now i have a real nice leader(after doing away with all the unwanted branches)growing in the perfect spot,i let the leader grow to a certain height,now ive been pinching new growth,and to my amazement i have a good amount of buds all over the leader,i was worried this would be a problem,the leaves look to be a little smaller now,but not much,im hoping when the tree eventually is pulled from the ground,i can achieve somewhat smaller leaves,this species of oak is probalbly not the best,but i felt id give it a whirl,i love the bark,spring color and movement in the trunk.

Specify "whacked it down".I have a pin oak,I have been trying to get lower branches on for years.The tree has a base about 4" across,is about 2' tall,and only has a cluster of branches at the top.I'm wondering if there are just some types of oak,that don't put out lower branches.If it didn't have a straight trunk,I'd make it a literati.

 

[milehigh_7]

Whenever the subject of oak bonsai comes up, the Californians chime in. California oaks are truly wonderful trees and make excellent bonsai subjects, however, their care and maintenance are drastically different than that for Eastern US oak. If you keep a Quercus alba as someone keeping quercus agrifolia, you will wind up with a dead tree. If you top prune an eastern white oak like a California live oak, you will get enormous leaves, as white oaks tend to produce oversized leaves along with new shoots.

Root pruning can be tricky with eastern oaks if you're dealing with a tree that's more than five years old or so. Cutting the tap root can lead to such a tree's death if you're too aggressive. Two thirds is about max for first pruning. Gradually cut the rest back--aiming for a flush cut--over five years (repotting every two--not every year).

DiscusMike--I had a photo posted on another site. That site seems to have gone to digital heaven, so I'll have to find the photo again. I repot the oak very infrequently, as it's well over 200 years old. I root prune ever 5-7 years (I've had the tree 12 years and it's been root pruned twice--once when I got it to remove field soil and once since then). Root pruning removes alot of the "engine" that produces development on top.

The tree is in a deep (8 inches) wide (20 inches or so) pot. This is not only because the pot works esthetically (tree has a 9 inch nebari), but the soil volume provides a buffer against temperature extreme (summer AND Winter) and allows deeper root run for the tree.

Also might note that the oaks I've worked on have a symbiotic relationship with fungal growth on their roots, much like pines. The deeper pot encourages that relationship. I get mushroom growth in the late spring, as the fungus grows. (Mycorrhizal relationships come in a few different forms, but the fungal growth in the root mass allows the tree to better utilize soil nutrients.)

It is indeed great to have you on the boards. Do you have any experience or knowledge of Q. Ilex? I have found a few people that have given me great info but the more the merrier.

 

[milehigh_7]

Wow, it's great to see that you are still alive...
I missed your posts from the past.

Attila, good to have you on as well. Have not seen you in a few weeks.

 

[rockm]

Don't know Ilex

I don't know much about Quercus Ilex, other than it is NOT winter hardy where I live. That's a deal breaker for me.

I had a shot at buying a terrific finished Q. Ilex at the National Arboretum's surplus bonsai sale a while back (Yeah, the arb used to have surplus sales to raise cash and to thin the ranks of donated bonsai-- bonsai dealers used to line up hours early to get first crack at the finest...those were the days..).

Anyway, I asked the curator of the bonsai collection at the time (Warren Hill) what he thought of the tree. He said it was a great buy, but couldn't vouch for it surviving the winter here. I passed.

 

[Attila Soos]

Attila, good to have you on as well. Have not seen you in a few weeks.

Thanks Milehigh7. I am still crazy about bonsai, so I can't help but stick around.

 

[Smoke]

Whenever the subject of oak bonsai comes up, the Californians chime in. California oaks are truly wonderful trees and make excellent bonsai subjects, however, their care and maintenance are drastically different than that for Eastern US oak. If you keep a Quercus alba as someone keeping quercus agrifolia, you will wind up with a dead tree. If you top prune an eastern white oak like a California live oak, you will get enormous leaves, as white oaks tend to produce oversized leaves along with new shoots.

Root pruning can be tricky with eastern oaks if you're dealing with a tree that's more than five years old or so. Cutting the tap root can lead to such a tree's death if you're too aggressive. Two thirds is about max for first pruning. Gradually cut the rest back--aiming for a flush cut--over five years (repotting every two--not every year).

DiscusMike--I had a photo posted on another site. That site seems to have gone to digital heaven, so I'll have to find the photo again. I repot the oak very infrequently, as it's well over 200 years old. I root prune ever 5-7 years (I've had the tree 12 years and it's been root pruned twice--once when I got it to remove field soil and once since then). Root pruning removes alot of the "engine" that produces development on top.

The tree is in a deep (8 inches) wide (20 inches or so) pot. This is not only because the pot works esthetically (tree has a 9 inch nebari), but the soil volume provides a buffer against temperature extreme (summer AND Winter) and allows deeper root run for the tree.

Also might note that the oaks I've worked on have a symbiotic relationship with fungal growth on their roots, much like pines. The deeper pot encourages that relationship. I get mushroom growth in the late spring, as the fungus grows. (Mycorrhizal relationships come in a few different forms, but the fungal growth in the root mass allows the tree to better utilize soil nutrients.)

Oak leaves are high in humis and humic acid in a fairly short time under decomposition. Oak leaves also tend to be highly acidic and help tremendously with nuetrilizing the soil and well as sweeten it. Oaks are just a marvelous plant all on their own.

I fully intend to dig some yamadori oaks this winter. I have an invitation to dig as well as a guy that wishes to trade me a large established coast live oak for a new custom built bonsai stand. I think I can help him out.

Cheers, Al

 

[grizzlywon]

As a newbie to another newbie, put this tree in the ground. Find a good place for it and plant it and let it grow indefinitely! I know you said you don't have a place to plant it, but you can find a place if you look around. Maybe a friend with land etc.

Buy bonsai material and practice on that. I can tell you from experience that trying to bonsai your first seedling will probably end in certain death. There is a lot to learn and a lot of ways to mess it up, like pruning the roots too much, over watering, using the wrong soil, and on and on the list goes. Bonsai is a lifestyle, not a hobby. You have to go out every single day in the summer and water, without exception! (Sorry if I sound a little bitter, this new passion of mine is a huge time killer. At least it is very relaxing and at times, rewarding!)

Just my opinion:
Put it in the ground and it will grow to be a huge tree someday that you can enjoy the shade of. Kill material that is cheap and has no real sentimental value! That is what you want to practice on.