Obtaining Federal Permits in the Northeast.

[Mike Hennigan]

I live not too far from fingerlakes national forest and there is a wealth of fantastic deciduous material out there from hawthorn and apple to hornbeam and service berry among others. I’ve been thinking about trying to obtain permits to collect some material there for the last couple years and finally went up to the ranger station earlier this week to inquire.

I talked to the guy at the front desk and told him i’d be interested in collecting a few small trees, specifically hawthorn, apple, and hornbeam. I brought up form FS-2400-1 as possibly the correct form I would need (forest products removal permit). He was not sure how to answer my question, understandably, it’s not something he hears everyday. He went and grabbed another guy who might know, he was also confused but suggested that a “Special Use Permit” may be more appropriate for my request.

They told me the “forest product removal” permits have to be based on data that they collect to make sure resources are harvested responsibly or something like that. And as nobody gives a crap about hawthorns enough to collect data on them (not useful for timber etc.) they weren’t sure if they would be able to issue a permit that way.

Though special use permits sound like they may be more geared toward if I was collecting the trees to sell them?

Anyways, they took my contact info and said they would pass it along to the correct person at the office in Vermont that actually manages the forest (I was just at the ranger station). If I don’t hear from that office I will contact them and see what they have to say.

Does anyone have any advice for obtaining these types of permits in the northeast? How do I know if I’m talking to the right people? How do I make sure that any permit application I fill out gets to the right person?

Gotta love bureaucracy!

 

[Soldano666]

I played phone tag with the Forester in Worcester county massachusetts after trying to obtain permission from the parks and wildlife Dept a couple years ago... Needless to say the season came and went and I never got in touch with him. Basically the ladies at the dept were telling me I should be able to with a letter head from the dept signed by the Forester. No permit needed. They wouldn't type the letter on the spot and I'm Pretty sure they didn't fully understand what I was asking for... They gave me the number for the Forester but he never returned my calls or answered. Good luck man if be curious to hear how this works

 

[PiñonJ]

Each ranger district sets their own policies, following general principles. Here they’re called Wilding Permits and most are presumably used by people collecting landscaping trees for personal use. Commercial collectors have to go through a more involved process. If the front desk people don’t know the policy for permits, the next level official to talk to would be the timber manager and it sounds like that’s who they’re sending your query to. I’ve found most people I’ve delt with at the ranger station to be accommodating, but they are bureaucrats, so be persistent, but respectful.

 

[GGB]

It seems like it's just a matter of finding someone in a good enough mood to humor the request. here in PA I've been bounced back and forth between offices (via email) with no headway or answers. everyone has been friendly, and very obviously disinterested in my request.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Thanks for the input all. It has occurred to me that it may be easier to get collecting permits out west for things like ponderosa pine and other conifers as some of these species are used for timber or have been more carefully assessed by the forest service etc. so they have a point of reference for giving out permits?

Whereas with something like hawthorn there’s just no reference for them to base a permit on? I feel there must be some permit for collecting for nursery trade or for landscape trees that these other deciduous species could fall under though...

 

[parhamr]

“Special Forest Product” is the correct permit for this! Specifically, the forest product you are seeking is “transplants.”

Out west I have obtained four of these from three different ranger districts. Here’s an example web page: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/giffordpinchot/passes-permits/forestproducts/?cid=fsbdev3_005000

I searched “finger lakes National Forest permits transplant” and found excellent news for you:

Forest botanical products include … transplants … and can all be gathered without the need for permits on both the Green Mountain and Finger Lakes National Forests with some special restrictions for sensitive resources.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/gmfl/passes-permits/forestproducts

You might want to print out that page and/or relevant policy documents to show to whomever asks you about what you’re doing. You might even safeguard the collection trip by checking in with a ranger station about what that website means about the protected locations where you cannot collect. They’ll likely even give you a free map and point to some choice spots

 

[Mike Hennigan]

“Special Forest Product” is the correct permit for this! Specifically, the forest product you are seeking is “transplants.”

Out west I have obtained four of these from three different ranger districts. Here’s an example web page: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/giffordpinchot/passes-permits/forestproducts/?cid=fsbdev3_005000

I searched “finger lakes National Forest permits transplant” and found excellent news for you:



https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/gmfl/passes-permits/forestproducts

You might want to print out that page and/or relevant policy documents to show to whomever asks you about what you’re doing. You might even safeguard the collection trip by checking in with a ranger station about what that website means about the protected locations where you cannot collect. They’ll likely even give you a free map and point to some choice spots

Omg, thank you so much! You are the man! Most of my googling has just led me to banging my head against the wall. This is great news! Yea I’ll check in with the ranger station with this info. Thanks again!!!

 

[parhamr]

@Mike Hennigan and once you have established this native yamadori for a year or two, holler at me if you’re willing to let go of any

 

[parhamr]

@Mike Hennigan one more note — in these ranger districts they’ve been specific about what height of tree they consider a transplant. From what I recall, one district limited me to 4 feet in height, another 6 feet, and one had no height restriction.

I think the rules were written intending “transplants” to mean young, aggressively growing saplings. What has been great about certain, desirable collection areas is they result in natural dwarfing of trees. It’s much to a bonsai enthusiast’s benefit when a 50-year-old tree that’s been mangled by nature is the same height as a young sapling!

 

[Mike Hennigan]

@Mike Hennigan one more note — in these ranger districts they’ve been specific about what height of tree they consider a transplant. From what I recall, one district limited me to 4 feet in height, another 6 feet, and one had no height restriction.

I think the rules were written intending “transplants” to mean young, aggressively growing saplings. What has been great about certain, desirable collection areas is they result in natural dwarfing of trees. It’s much to a bonsai enthusiast’s benefit when a 50-year-old tree that’s been mangled by nature is the same height as a young sapling!

Oh good to know. I’ll be sure to check on that. Dope!

 

[Cable]

Oh good to know. I’ll be sure to check on that. Dope!

Any follow up news?

 

[Andre_J]

This is an old thread, but I’m interested in if anyone has had luck in this area. I’m very interested in traveling to the fingerlake area in the spring.