Of mudmen and accent rocks: thoughts?

[Dr3z]

Wondering what the community thinks of incorporating a mudman into their bonsai design? I imagine the community is divided. On one hand they offer much sought after prospective in creating the perception of a large tree in miniature and appear to have genuine historical roots in the art. On the other hand they can remind me of a cheesy sunken ship in aquaria if done poorly, off unneeded distraction or just make things look very "busy".

The same is true of accent stones. I've seen much derision when people include them in some cases while in others I feel they help create a realistic landscape, add prospective or complement the overall design for a pleasing effect which is half the point.

Thoughts? Pictures (nailed it failed it)?

 

[sorce]

I think it CAN'T be accomplished in Bonsai but if you practice Penjing you will succeed.

Sorce

 

[River's Edge]

Shore Pine on Rock, tree is Shohin size, less than 6 inches high.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

No. Just no.

 

[River's Edge]

No. Just no.

Rule 37, subsection c, part four?
completely overturned by rule 38, subsection b, part five?

The Japanese dropped the use of figurines from their version of Bonsai about 400 years ago in order to conform the Oriental Art to their idealistic idiom.

 

[erich_raudebaugh]

It's more of a penzai/penjing thing, not really used in Japan, at least not any more. There are a great many styles and traditions of bonsai, it shows up all over Asia. Most Asian countries seem to follow the Chinese model a bit more, although Taiwan is a bit of both. Do what makes you happy, just be aware that it might not be bonsai in the Japanese sense.

 

[Michael P]

It is a personal aesthetic decision. Mudmen usually give me the creeps, but I've seen some photos of wonderful penjing that make good use of "mud animals". Accent rocks are more successful IF the scale is right and they are geologically convincing.

 

[badatusernames]

there’s something about them that feels wrong to me tbh

 

[River's Edge]

Shore Pine on Rock, tree is Shohin size, less than 6 inches high.View attachment 370827

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

 

[MrWunderful]

Mudmen-Personally cant stand them. It reminds me way too much of mallsai.

But, I am a firm believer in “to each his own” so if people enjoy it, then so be it.

Rocks- only if root over rock style.

I dont do penjing, but see how it could work out.

 

[Bagels]

I think it's about the right scale and balance of the composition. In some, I think it adds to it. But the selection has to be right.

 

[ShadyStump]

I can say that the videos I like most tend to be the Vietnamese shows that are full of huge detailed penjing style works. I would love to make something similar of my native trees some day.

They do it very well. The figurines used are generally small and lack bright color and details, set in a landscape of large proportions. To coarsely compare, they're more the garnish than the meal, but the plate would seem empty without them.

There was a thread someone started some time back looking for ideas on how to create a full scene in comparable fashion. The discussion returned many times to the idea of a real running stream of water.
Could you imagine a complete model train set or the like with real tiny trees in stead of plastic ones?

 

[canoeguide]

Mudmen-Personally cant stand them. It reminds me way too much of mallsai.

I know the feeling - I've got a couple little procumbens nanas from cuttings that I am starting to like, but they look too much like mallsai. So, they get put behind other things on a crowded bench.

Mudmen: certainly you shouldn't let anyone kill your joy if you like them. But, like the procumbens nana, there's a lot of negative associations. Most of the time they seem gaudy or cliche, and in sharp contrast to the subtle natural details of a tree.

 

[Lutonian]

I think mud men draw your eye way from a bonsai being just the tree and the pot, as the focus is the tree.
Landscapes are more busy by design and you look at the whole composition, mud men give a sense of scale and finish the piece as long as there not over used. A western art that uses similar tricks is model rail way building I have seen some great landscapes from those guys.

 

[Bolero]

I think mud men draw your eye way from a bonsai being just the tree and the pot, as the focus is the tree.
Landscapes are more busy by design and you look at the whole composition, mud men give a sense of scale and finish the piece as long as there not over used. A western art that uses similar tricks is model rail way building I have seen some great landscapes from those guys.

I use Ying Rock to add interesting detail in my Bonsai Landscape's and Bonsai Terrarium's, I have also added Japanese Red Crowned Cranes to some, as well as little houses to assimilate a small village.....I also incorporate Seedling Shimpaku Juniper into my work....
I am a firm believer in "To Each His Own"......However Totally different from Pure Japanese Bonsai.....
I use Chinese Ying Rock, Shimpaku Juniper, and Mudman Figures in keeping to the Penjing Style of Bonsai Gardening or Bonsai Landscaping.....

 

[Lutonian]

I use Ying Rock to add interesting detail in my Bonsai Landscape's and Bonsai Terrarium's, I have also added Japanese Red Crowned Cranes to some, as well as little houses to assimilate a small village.....I also incorporate Seedling Shimpaku Juniper into my work....
I am a firm believer in "To Each His Own"......However Totally different from Pure Japanese Bonsai.....

I agree do what pleases you as you are the one that they give enjoyment too, but also expect others to have their opinions good and bad. I always consider other people opinions but don't always agree.

 

[penumbra]

For now, do whatever floats your boat. Your veiws will change on this journey ............... or not.

 

[PA_Penjing]

I love a good mud man, just don’t call it bonsai. I also really like accent rocks, they can add visual weight to the base of a tree that needs it. You said it yourself, if done incorrectly it looks stupid, but I reckon that’s the case with everything.

 

[PA_Penjing]

Oh yeah pics, those are the first three I opened up to but my library is packed with good examples. The first tree doesn’t do it for me but the rocky riverbank makes it worth looking at. The second tree is a very important/famous Chinese penjing with rock and mud men. And the third pic is also a highly respected tree that gains a lot of ruggedness from that big ass rock. I could post all day but I’m late for work

 

[Bolero]

I think your number 3 photo is really outstanding and I applaud your creativity...
What kind of Tree ?
I like your choice of Rock in #3 photo....what is it ?