Old Scroll for Remount

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,453
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
Honest If I were to commission you to refurbish that I would want a blend from white at the base to light grey to light blue/gray. I would want the white to be a small portion at the base and the gray to go about 1/3 of the balance upwards and from there the blue grey to the top. For me it would be a Winter feeling although I do not know if that is acceptable by tradition and the original art deserves traditional standards.

Grimmy
 

kakejiku

Chumono
Messages
654
Reaction score
484
Location
Salt Lake CIty Utah
Honest If I were to commission you to refurbish that I would want a blend from white at the base to light grey to light blue/gray. I would want the white to be a small portion at the base and the gray to go about 1/3 of the balance upwards and from there the blue grey to the top. For me it would be a Winter feeling although I do not know if that is acceptable by tradition and the original art deserves traditional standards.

Grimmy

First thank you for the reply. Do not take this as criticism, just trying to educate bonsai artists about scroll design...
1. I am having a difficult time understanding your terminology. I think you are explaining a Sandan Hyougu (Three step) style scroll. This is a thin strip of Ichimonji (about 1 inch or less), which borders the top and bottom of the artwork. This is the cloth I think you are advocating white with this. A chuumawashi cloth which surrounds the Ichimonji and artwork, and usually has an arabesque or other pattern in the cloth. I think you are looking for this to be your light gray cloth. Lastly the Ten and Chi is the top cloths of the scroll, and is usually a solid color with no pattern in the cloth. I think you want this to be the blue/gray color cloth.
Hopefully I interpreted that correctly.

2. This is a rule for standalone scrolls, and may not have any relevance to use of a scroll in bonsai display. It involves the concepts of use of warm and cool colors, called danshoku 暖色  and kanshoku 寒色 respectively. When a painting specifically points out a specific season, the viewer will feel that season. In the case of this painting, you can imagine feeling cold by what many others have written on it. So because of this feeling, the Hyougushi uses Danshoku (warm colors) in the cloths to help neutralize these feelings and emotions. So in this case the white and gray you suggest can both be neutral or have undertones of warm or cold depending, so that is a good choice.

3. However, another concept to think about when framing the scroll and selecting cloth colors is the painting itself. So many viewers have said it is a snowy egret...which has a lot of white. Use of white would seem to me to take away from the effect of the bird in the painting. Another thing is the age of the painting has made the paper age to almost a gray hue. Placing a gray around this old of a painting may make it look like it is not framed at all unless some techniques are utilized such as suji placed around the painting.

I will try to take some pics with cloths to try to let you visualize those points when I have more time.
 

kakejiku

Chumono
Messages
654
Reaction score
484
Location
Salt Lake CIty Utah
Thanks for the reply.
Still deciding at the moment what I should do with it in regards to design. It is a very old painting I think, but need to do more research to find out about the artist to date it.

I did some researching. The signature on the painting is Chikanobu. I believe it is from painter Chikanobu Kanou (1660-1728). You can read about the Kano school of painting at the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kan%C5%8D_school
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,453
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
I did some researching. The signature on the painting is Chikanobu. I believe it is from painter Chikanobu Kanou (1660-1728). You can read about the Kano school of painting at the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kan%C5%8D_school

That is very impressive :D Would be very interested in seeing the progress on this one.

Grimmy
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
12,474
Reaction score
28,110
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
Following this thread. To me it is a winter scroll - because it looks like snow on the bamboo leaves and it suggests a heron on a snow bank by the side of some water. I would use it when displaying deciduous trees that have dropped their leaves in the winter - particularly anything in a weeping style that suggests being close to water. I would accompany it with a suiseki - either mountain or snow.

I was concerned about the condition of the scroll and whether you would be able to restore it. Now I am intrigued by the process and am enjoying the photos! I am not a scroll aficionado, but I would think that you would want to use a grey pallet to reinforce winter. The entire image is subtle, so any pattern in material should be very soft and muted. It should be a "quiet" contemplative scroll.

Please share more!
 

thumblessprimate1

Masterpiece
Messages
4,232
Reaction score
8,542
Location
DALLAS
Please share more. There is much for me and others to learn about scrolls.
 

kakejiku

Chumono
Messages
654
Reaction score
484
Location
Salt Lake CIty Utah
This post was done in 2014....wow time flies...but to really do the scroll correctly you have to take time. I am hoping this is accepted into an exhibition at the Tokyo Metropolitan Art Museum for Hyousou artists in 2017.

I am still contemplating if I should put Fuutai on this scroll. (Fuutai are the strips of cloth that hang down from the top of the scroll) What do you readers think.
The scroll currently hangs in a Sandan Hyougu style (Semi-formal). It has a Shitan (Rosewood) jikusaki in the Enshu style. Most people said winter, and that is the feeling I got. Traditionally, a Japanese Hyougushi probably would have framed with the concept of Danshoku/Kanshoku. Which is warm and cool colors. However, they typically do the opposite of the season of the painting.

I used the white wave pattern cloths to represent snow banks around a pond. The top/bottom (Ten/Chi) cloth is a light blue/gray which reminded me of a winter sky. The ichimonji bordering the top and the bottom has a pine needle motif. Hope you like it.
SANY0922.JPG
 

kakejiku

Chumono
Messages
654
Reaction score
484
Location
Salt Lake CIty Utah
Honest If I were to commission you to refurbish that I would want a blend from white at the base to light grey to light blue/gray. I would want the white to be a small portion at the base and the gray to go about 1/3 of the balance upwards and from there the blue grey to the top. For me it would be a Winter feeling although I do not know if that is acceptable by tradition and the original art deserves traditional standards.

Grimmy

Were these the types of cloth colors you were envisioning when you posted this?
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,453
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
Were these the types of cloth colors you were envisioning when you posted this?

Yes! Thank you for the posts by the way - I find them highly interesting and informative :)

Grimmy
 
Top Bottom