Old scroll painting...remount or not?

[Poink88]

I purchased a scroll through eBay (and watching more...thanks to Smoke's thread ) based only on my taste and what I liked on the painting. Scroll condition is fair and the painting can benefit also. Both seem to have several pin/tack holes.

Is it better to leave it as-is and maintain the age throughout or have the (silk) painting remounted to a new scroll?

Thank you.

 

[rockm]

How much you willing to spend? Not a cheap proposition, if done correctly.

 

[Poink88]

How much you willing to spend? Not a cheap proposition, if done correctly.

Cost will of course play a major role if I ever think I should have it remounted. We have a local club member whom I heard does pretty awesome job but I honestly haven't checked cost yet.

Care to give me a rough idea? Current scroll size is 24" x 49" and I am just after a descent one...not museum/art gallery quality.

Thanks!

 

[rockm]

"Current scroll size is 24" x 49" and I am just after a descent one...not museum/art gallery quality."

I can't give an idea of cost, but I can give you an idea of what's involved. The mount, if it's classic Japanese, is made of many different, overlapping and interrelated pieces. The materials involved--depending on what mood you're trying to convey with the scroll--can be expensive, and range from gold threaded silk to paper...

I would avoid cheaping out on a remount IF the scroll is worth it. Some scrolls just aren't, especially if they've got water damage or other things ON THE ARTWORK itself. A bad, or cheaply done mount makes the entire scroll look, well, cheap.

If you have someone nearby that knows what they're doing and can do it for a reasonable fee, go for it.

Alternatively, many of the scrolls I've bought from Japan have merely been dirty and in need of a cleaning. That might offer a less-expensive alternative.

Kakejiku, who posts here, can certainly give you a better idea of costs, materials, labor, etc.

 

[Poink88]

Thanks, I will check my local contact.

I really like the artwork. I am not much into scrolls actually so I am also considering re-purposing and just framing it so it can be displayed in my home better.

We will see once I receive it. Wife might have other ideas as well.

 

[dick benbow]

The same way Japan was enamoured with olde chinese pots for their older trees simply because of the age, I feel a lot of the value in our displays is the opportunity to appreciate something old. Here in America especially, our bonsai stylings seem to focus on lots of jins and shari. Why? because we feel that denotes a tree of age that has survived many battles. Even when it comes down to simple kusamono, the ones best appreciated were not just created but have been around for a few years. Age is not the only consideration when it comes to display. But I think it brings something with it that newly created items cannot.

Say that your at a show and no docens around. You see this nice new looking scroll. How would you know that the art was made lifetimes ago and have the same awe that something obviously old would bring to the display. If the scroll was gonna be used at a home tokonoma where you could share with your quests that the age of the art and fame of the artist had to be protected,then that might be another consideration.

 

[BigDave]

I purchased a scroll through eBay (and watching more

oh so that's you been bidding against me on the short ones...




shhhhhh hush now

 

[Poink88]

oh so that's you been bidding against me on the short ones...




shhhhhh hush now

LOL. I just won another (swimming carps). I went after 3 got 2...not bad I think and for a steal too!

Blame Smoke for "advertising", I think that really increased the bidders (me for one). I think I am done for now though.

 

[Poink88]

Here are pics of the carp...I really love this one.
It is supposed to be 85 years old (made in 1928)

View attachment 30939 View attachment 30940 View attachment 30947 View attachment 30941

 

[Poink88]

Here is the one I am contemplating on having remounted...

View attachment 30942 View attachment 30943 View attachment 30944 View attachment 30945 View attachment 30946

 

[dick benbow]

curious to see why you selected the carp and the bird as something you wish to use. Did you have something in mind ahead of time and looked speifically for this scene, or just became enamoured with the piece when you saw it.

If more the former than the latter, could you explain your vision of their use.

 

[Poink88]

curious to see why you selected the carp and the bird as something you wish to use. Did you have something in mind ahead of time and looked speifically for this scene, or just became enamoured with the piece when you saw it.

If more the former than the latter, could you explain your vision of their use.

It is the latter, I just liked them...the composition, brush stroke style, etc. These are for me...if I can use them with my bonsai presentation later, great. If not, no problem.

 

[rockm]

FWIW, a remount of comparable quality on the bird scroll will probably cost more than the whole thing is worth. Which is why many of these scrolls are put up for sale.

The damage on that one isn't a good thing, but it's not catastrophic.

Also, FWIW, your 85 year old koi scroll is Showa period. There are many Taisho (1912-1926) and Showa-era (1926-1989) scrolls out there. They are among the most saleable to the west, as they typically aren't as stylized in their content as earlier stuff from the Meiji and Edo periods--and depending on the artist and provenance, not nearly as expensive

 

[Poink88]

FWIW, a remount of comparable quality on the bird scroll will probably cost more than the whole thing is worth. Which is why many of these scrolls are put up for sale.

The damage on that one isn't a good thing, but it's not catastrophic.

Also, FWIW, your 85 year old koi scroll is Showa period. There are many Taisho (1912-1926) and Showa-era (1926-1989) scrolls out there. They are among the most saleable to the west, as they typically aren't as stylized in their content as earlier stuff from the Meiji and Edo periods--and depending on the artist and provenance, not nearly as expensive

Thanks!!!

I bought these for their appeal to me. Being older or having monetary value is secondary. I also bought these for cheap so no problem there too. As I said, I am even considering cannibalizing the bird and just frame it.

 

[rockm]

If you're after Japanese kacho-e (kachoga) flower and bird art, do a search on Kacho-e, "Shin Hanga" and "Koson Ohara".

The "flower and bird print" is a particular form of art in Japan. You don't have to cut up scrolls to get really great stuff. It is a bit more expensive though.

I went down this same path--from scrolls to Japanese prints -- a while back... Cost me a lot of $$

 

[Poink88]

Rockm,

I checked and they are AWESOME!!! BUT believe it or not, more expensive than what I paid for these scrolls...which are original paintings vs block print.

I love that pic you posted.

Thanks!

 

[rockm]

"BUT believe it or not, more expensive than what I paid for these scrolls"

Well, yeah, scrolls are not all that expensive (if you don't have a lot of others bidding on them) Block prints are substantially more expensive because the artists are more well-known and the art is mostly better because of the process involved. Some artists, like Koson, made art for prints, as well as original art for kakejiku. The drawings by Koson (or other noted Kachoga artists) made specifically for Kekjiku command prices in the thousands.