Olive pot..too small ?

maroun.c

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Repotted this tree this morning. It was in this tank after trunk chop and it started showing good growth this year...
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Believe pot was way oversized so had these smaller pot choices:
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Ended up going with the oval as it matched the trunk ovalshape as well as being a bit deeper to not appear very shallow for the wide trunk. Looking at it I believe it's a bit too small as I wont have space to work on nice roots as well as maybe looking a bit too small for the tree ?
Screenshot_20200522-134601_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20200522-135642_Gallery.jpg

Any thoughts ?
 

ABCarve

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Looks like the same pot. ??
 

sorce

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I think olive is the tree I see most in what seems to be too small of a pot.

So health wise, I reckon you're ok.

Sorce
 

Bonsai Nut

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I would think the smaller pots would slow the development of such a recently chopped tree. It may look better.

Make sure you pot based on your final design and foliage outline - not based on a bare stump. I don't really know what your plans are for this tree, but in my mind I have a foliage silhouette that suggests the last pot is too small. Perhaps you can photoshop a green triangle on top of your pic so we can get an idea of your final plan(?) Just a suggestion.
 

maroun.c

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Make sure you pot based on your final design and foliage outline - not based on a bare stump. I don't really know what your plans are for this tree, but in my mind I have a foliage silhouette that suggests the last pot is too small. Perhaps you can photoshop a green triangle on top of your pic so we can get an idea of your final plan(?) Just a suggestion.
Looking at how wide and low the trunk is I believe I'll aim to a silhouette along these lines
Screenshot_20200522-161226_Photo Editor.jpg
 
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hemmy

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Looking at it I believe it's a bit too small as I wont have space to work on nice roots as well as maybe looking a bit too small for the tree ?

I still struggle with the decision of when to put a tree in a bonsai container to slow growth. I probably tend to leave them up potted too long, as I generally view the confined environment of the bonsai pot for refinement and shortening internodes.

I would have put your tree into a larger container to make it easier to flatten out the roots.

Another thing to consider is how much taper you want on the branches and how much time you want to take to develop it. A larger root mass will give quicker extension and lead to more leave mass which will thicken the branches. I would wire the shoots for movement when they are hard enough and also consider a portion of each branch as the sacrifice to gain thickness and movement as you cut back.

One positive is that your current growth appears to have short internodes. Possibly from the original smaller pot or a repot after the major trunk chop. A downside to larger containers is that a large root mass after a trunk chop can support long vigorous internodes. Which can be problematic for building branching.
 

maroun.c

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Way too small for it own good at this stage of development.
That's my concern, as I still need branch growth although only 2-3 inches of growth but want some ramification and smaller leaves so that's what led me to think to move to a smaller pot.
 

maroun.c

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I still struggle with the decision of when to put a tree in a bonsai container to slow growth. I probably tend to leave them up potted too long, as I generally view the confined environment of the bonsai pot for refinement and shortening internodes.

I would have put your tree into a larger container to make it easier to flatten out the roots.

Another thing to consider is how much taper you want on the branches and how much time you want to take to develop it. A larger root mass will give quicker extension and lead to more leave mass which will thicken the branches. I would wire the shoots for movement when they are hard enough and also consider a portion of each branch as the sacrifice to gain thickness and movement as you cut back.

One positive is that your current growth appears to have short internodes. Possibly from the original smaller pot or a repot after the major trunk chop. A downside to larger containers is that a large root mass after a trunk chop can support long vigorous internodes. Which can be problematic for building branching.

Same here as I had to move some trees out of bad nursery soil so went directly to nursery pots to avoid 2 major root work sessions, which I realize would mean much slower development.
I'd want a bit of taper on the branches although final shape branches wont be too long.
It does have short Internodes but leave size is still way too large.
O can move it to another larger but shallower pot to allow for more root growth and flatter root base. But then afraid of getting long Internodes.
 

Mike Corazzi

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It does have short Internodes but leave size is still way too large.
O can move it to another larger but shallower pot to allow for more root growth and flatter root base. But then afraid of getting long Internodes.

I yanked 5 olive shoots out of the ground within inches of each other and planted them in pots.
4 have small leaves and one has big ones. No real difference in pot SIZES.
I think the leaf size is genetic.
 

maroun.c

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After all comments believe a slightly larger size pot would have been best. Do I move it again tomorrow or give it till aug or next year.
 

Mikecheck123

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Yes, olives respond wonderfully to pot changes (small pot = small leaves). Not want you want right now.
 

Adair M

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First, some comments...

All your thoughts on “long internodes”, and “big leaves”, and taper are examples of “overthinking” and inexperience. You’ll get the experience yourself, let me help you with the “overthinking”:

Your tree has been chopped, and needs to grow primary branches. Fortunately, olives are very vigorous in warm climates, and will backbud and send out new shoots at the base of virtually every leaf. The roots need sufficient well draining soil to grow into. To develop taper in your branches, let them extend, then cut them back. Extend, and cut back. Over and over. Every time you do this, not only will you develop taper, but you’ll force side branches to grow from the base of leaves. In the early stages, remove any new branches that grow straight down or straight up. Keep the side branches. (But cut them back.)

The other thing to keep in mind is will like to send their branches up. So, you will need to wire the new branches to direct their growth. I use aluminum wire, and gently wire them once they get a little, but not fully, lignified. I put gentle curves on them, as they’re easy to snap. It’s important to try to set the proper direction for them right where the are attached to the main trunk.

Don’t worry about leaf size. The leaves will stay small once you develop ramification.

Right now, the pot you have chosen is too small to get the kind of growth you need to develop structure. After a few years, however, that pot might work very well to aid in ramification, and reducing leaf size. I have some fat trunks in tiny pots.

But that’s putting the horse in front of the cart. Work on developing structure for the next several years.
 

maroun.c

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First, some comments...

All your thoughts on “long internodes”, and “big leaves”, and taper are examples of “overthinking” and inexperience. You’ll get the experience yourself, let me help you with the “overthinking”:

Your tree has been chopped, and needs to grow primary branches. Fortunately, olives are very vigorous in warm climates, and will backbud and send out new shoots at the base of virtually every leaf. The roots need sufficient well draining soil to grow into. To develop taper in your branches, let them extend, then cut them back. Extend, and cut back. Over and over. Every time you do this, not only will you develop taper, but you’ll force side branches to grow from the base of leaves. In the early stages, remove any new branches that grow straight down or straight up. Keep the side branches. (But cut them back.)

The other thing to keep in mind is will like to send their branches up. So, you will need to wire the new branches to direct their growth. I use aluminum wire, and gently wire them once they get a little, but not fully, lignified. I put gentle curves on them, as they’re easy to snap. It’s important to try to set the proper direction for them right where the are attached to the main trunk.

Don’t worry about leaf size. The leaves will stay small once you develop ramification.

Right now, the pot you have chosen is too small to get the kind of growth you need to develop structure. After a few years, however, that pot might work very well to aid in ramification, and reducing leaf size. I have some fat trunks in tiny pots.

But that’s putting the horse in front of the cart. Work on developing structure for the next several years.
Thanks for all the info. Guess it was a wrong move indeed.
Will move it to a larger pot tomorrow, I hope it wont be affected by the double repotting in 2 days.


Thanks all for all the replies.
 

maroun.c

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Repoted tree to a bigger pot this morning. Hope the double repot wont kill it .
Screenshot_20200523-074706_Gallery.jpg

Here's another one that was chopped d at same time last year. Was going to repot into a smaller pot this year but decided to keep for one more year in same pot
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This will be the new front
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Went and pruned as advised allow and wired a bit to orient main branch directions. Did I remove too much?
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Is this tree still considered in development stage ? Do I keep fertilizing heavy or start decreasing fertilizer ?
Thanks
 
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