Olives & seeds on bonsai

[Spindori]

I have obtained an olive bonsai this year and I was wondering whether and when to cut of the olives and seeds from the tree. I do not seem to find goid literature on it. For normal olive trees they do not recommend to remove the olives and the seeds as these would motivate the tree to produce more olives and seeds- and I have to admit it makes the tree look more attractive. However I think this way the energy could be taken away to build up a thicker trunk for the bonsai during winter time (I am in Europe). Also, I saw that it is recommended to prune olives in the spring time. So my question is: what do you do with your olive bonsai? When is the good time to remove olives and seeds from them? Before dormancy or after winter? Any suggestion appreciated.

 

[Soup Dragon]

I have obtained an olive bonsai this year and I was wondering whether and when to cut of the olives and seeds from the tree. I do not seem to find goid literature on it. For normal olive trees they do not recommend to remove the olives and the seeds as these would motivate the tree to produce more olives and seeds- and I have to admit it makes the tree look more attractive. However I think this way the energy could be taken away to build up a thicker trunk for the bonsai during winter time (I am in Europe). Also, I saw that it is recommended to prune olives in the spring time. So my question is: what do you do with your olive bonsai? When is the good time to remove olives and seeds from them? Before dormancy or after winter? Any suggestion appreciated.

If you want to channel as much energy as possible into thickening the trunk then you should remove the olives as soon as they form. By letting them grow you have already allowed the tree to divert branch/foliage-growing energy into making fruit.

You can certainly remove them now. The tree won't grow much over the winter however. It will start again in spring.

 

[Spindori]

If you want to channel as much energy as possible into thickening the trunk then you should remove the olives as soon as they form. By letting them grow you have already allowed the tree to divert branch/foliage-growing energy into making fruit.

You can certainly remove them now. The tree won't grow much over the winter however. It will start again in spring.

If you want to channel as much energy as possible into thickening the trunk then you should remove the olives as soon as they form. By letting them grow you have already allowed the tree to divert branch/foliage-growing energy into making fruit.

You can certainly remove them now. The tree won't grow much over the winter however. It will start again in spring.

Good explanation Soup Dragon, thank you!

 

[Shibui]

The olives in the pictures look wrinkled which is not normal for healthy fruit. My guess is they have had some stress and the fruit is not developing properly and will probably drop anyway.
I have never heard of leaving fruit to promote more fruit.
I do not see fruit on my bonsai olives because we prune too often for the shoots to produce flowers so I guess even if it was true that fruit promotes fruit it probably won't work for bonsai.
My olives do not grow much over winter so trimming is not usually required. I have just started pruning as the new shoots are extending now it is spring here. For fruiting trees in the garden it is common to prune when the fruit is harvested - for us that is early winter here. Even if the trees do not sprout straight away they will do so when weather warms up in spring.
We can collect feral olives almost any time of year here but usually late spring or late summer through to early autumn is preferred. In both cases collected trees are pruned heavily, often back to stumps, but they soon sprout new shoots. It seems that olives can be pruned any time of year.

 

[Spindori]

Thank you for your valuable insights Shibui!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If you want to channel as much energy as possible into thickening the trunk then you should remove the olives as soon as they form. By letting them grow you have already allowed the tree to divert branch/foliage-growing energy into making fruit.

You can certainly remove them now. The tree won't grow much over the winter however. It will start again in spring.

Fruits demand resources, so the trunk would increase as well if they're left on. There's simply more transport, and transport is a size increaser.
Maybe it thickens even faster. Not to forget the positive mechanical effect of extra weight on branches and the root system.

I think there's really no absolute answer, I can see the logic in both thought paths; for leaving them on and for clipping the fruits off.

Honestly, I think the difference is so small that it really doesn't matter a lot. I've never seen good studies or convincing arguments for one approach or another when it comes to trunk thickening in relation to fruit.

 

[HoneyHornet]

What is the goal? To have olives on the tree or focus on beefing up the tree?

I remember reading in my vintage brooklyn botanical bonsai edition that old japanese bonsaimen often let their azaleas go many years through maturity and thickening and ramifying of the canopy(s) all without allowing the tree to bloom its beautiful bouquet - to allow maximum energy into the ramifications and thickening of the trunk , and when the tree has met the scale desired ,the tree is then allowed to bloom for a very brief but honored display

Now i know we are talking fruit not flowers but isnt the concept essentially parallel?

Now all fruits n flowers aside, to achieve your desired scale it may be beneficial to hard prune and forget about olives for a few seasons, and let it get bushier ,consolidate that growth nice and tight

I also cant tell much from the pix could you do a profile shot to show trunk?

Edit:sorry in now reading you asked your question at the end lol as far as exactly when to remove the olives relating to winter I have no idea !

 

[HorseloverFat]

Greetings, wanderer! Our concave cutters in right hands to the air in honor of the arrival of the traveler and his foliated companion! The Woody Dwarves, in unison, excitedly welcome you to The Tiny Forest.

Everything appears to be handled/in capable hands here, just tap-dancin’ my way through your campsite, introducing myself.

Pleasure to make your acquaintance.

(Do you have any images of this tree from a more standard viewing angle at your disposal?.....for my eye-holes?)

 

[Spindori]

@HorseloverFat: Nice to meet you! Olive tree front & back. It is very young but decided to have this in the family as I wish to grow old with it. I had olive trees before but not as bonsais and I always found the whole symbolic tradition around this tree fascinating. They are the symbol of peace and some folks would plant an olive tree in their garden when a couple gets married. I guess it is because all these things, peace and relationship needs long time to grow, just like an olive tree. So I already had bonsais I thought it is more than apropriate to get this young olive tree trained as a bonsai that I found at a local bonsai store. I tried to resist, was glad I didnt get overwhelmed for buying everything I liked, just respectfully observing and enjoying the tranquillity of the shop- and getting the necessary gears and materials I needed at that time but I ended up with this new family member, as I felt it was calling for me.

I think I will eventually cut off the olives and the small seeds before hard winter, try not to prune hard, and leave the leaves on to survive the winter. Yes, I would like a thicker tree, was just not sure about those small seeds but I think they can go before winter. The soil is well draining and at the moment I give it some after season fertiliser (NPK 11-11-31) once a week so I think it will be fine.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Very nice! Thank you for obliging me!

That’s awesome about the symbolism and history of “the olive tree” If you like that aspect of trees, you should do some reading on the pomegranate (punica granatum) also.. it’ll make you want to own roughly a thousand.

 

[HoneyHornet]

Oh the scale is totally different than what I thought from the aerial shot!!wow i like it allot

 

[HorseloverFat]

Oh the scale is totally different than what I thought from the aerial shot!

Same boat, friend. I’m glad we got those “extras”

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Spindori]

What is the goal? To have olives on the tree or focus on beefing up the tree?

I remember reading in my vintage brooklyn botanical bonsai edition that old japanese bonsaimen often let their azaleas go many years through maturity and thickening and ramifying of the canopy(s) all without allowing the tree to bloom its beautiful bouquet - to allow maximum energy into the ramifications and thickening of the trunk , and when the tree has met the scale desired ,the tree is then allowed to bloom for a very brief but honored display

Now i know we are talking fruit not flowers but isnt the concept essentially parallel?

Now all fruits n flowers aside, to achieve your desired scale it may be beneficial to hard prune and forget about olives for a few seasons, and let it get bushier ,consolidate that growth nice and tight

I also cant tell much from the pix could you do a profile shot to show trunk?

Edit:sorry in now reading you asked your question at the end lol as far as exactly when to remove the olives relating to winter I have no idea !

Very nice! Thank you for obliging me!

That’s awesome about the symbolism and history of “the olive tree” If you like that aspect of trees, you should do some reading on the pomegranate (punica granatum) also.. it’ll make you want to own roughly a thousand.

Hehe...thank you for the tip!

 

[HoneyHornet]

I also take back the hard cut comment I actually lile the canopy size,maybe only a lil tighter but not some aggressive situation i made it sound like

 

[Forsoothe!]

Every plant goes through a yearly cycle. A sample cycle might be: 1. satisfy the quiescent requirement; 2. expand buds; 3. flower, set fruit; 4. leaf out; 5. mature fruit/seed; 6. 2nd flush of foliage growth; 7. mature buds for next year; enter quiescence. Or something like that in a similar order.

The amount time spent in any given part of the cycle is enough to satisfy the needs when the plant is grown in its native growing zone. When grown at either extreme of the possible weather zones, some of the cycles get cut short. For instance, Azalea only bloom every other year when grown too far north of their range to complete the seed maturation cycle. It doesn't have enough of the growing season left over to make next year's buds ready for the next spring, so no or fewer than typical flowers for that season. But, since they will not be spending much of their resources maturing seeds they have plenty of time for a good 2nd flush and building buds for the following year, so flowering every-other-year.

Short-cutting any cycle allows more time and resources for the other cycles that follow. Olives or 2nd flush and bud building, take your choice.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Every plant goes through a yearly cycle. A sample cycle might be: 1. satisfy the quiescent requirement; 2. expand buds; 3. flower, set fruit; 4. leaf out; 5. mature fruit/seed; 6. 2nd flush of foliage growth; 7. mature buds for next year; enter quiescence. Or something like that in a similar order.

The amount time spent in any given part of the cycle is enough to satisfy the needs when the plant is grown in its native growing zone. When grown at either extreme of the possible weather zones, some of the cycles get cut short. For instance, Azalea only bloom every other year when grown too far north of their range to complete the seed maturation cycle. It doesn't have enough of the growing season left over to make next year's buds ready for the next spring, so no or fewer than typical flowers for that season. But, since they will not be spending much of their resources maturing seeds they have plenty of time for a good 2nd flush and building buds for the following year, so flowering every-other-year.

Short-cutting any cycle allows more time and resources for the other cycles that follow. Olives or 2nd flush and bud building, take your choice.

There is so much insight packed into a few sentences here. It's not just information, as it helps us to 'think' like the tree.

 

[leatherback]

For instance, Azalea only bloom every other year when grown too far north of their range to complete the seed maturation cycle. It doesn't have enough of the growing season left over to make next year's buds ready for the next spring, so no or fewer than typical f

What is this information based on? Feels something made up; this is not true as far as I know?

The olives in the pictures look wrinkled which is not normal for healthy fruit. My guess is they have had some stress and the fruit is not developing properly and will probably drop anyway.

This is what concerns me too.
@Spindori Do you know what might have happened to the tree? I have a larger olive in a pot in the garden, and the fruit are glossy, slowly maturing.

 

[Spindori]

What is this information based on? Feels something made up; this is not true as far as I know?


This is what concerns me too.
@Spindori Do you know what might have happened to the tree? I have a larger olive in a pot in the garden, and the fruit are glossy, slowly maturing.

Hm, I thought about this. We are in The Netherlands, where we got lot of rains, had a hot and sunny summer around 25-30C (77-82F) but since September it is quite cold here, so around 10-15C (50-60C). So normally olives survive here but it is not a mediteranean country- it is a bit colder than what would be optimal for them. I put closer to outside to get rainwater for it for now but should put closer to the window for winter so that it gets more warm from inside. We have cold winter but doesnt get below zero degree (32F) often but I think positioning it to a warmer place is needed. Thank you for pointing this out! Well, it could have been the transfer stressing it out but I think it is rather the cold. I feel the cold too, not surprised the olive doesnt like it either

 

[leatherback]

My olives stay outside in all weather, which is not drastically different (I am just across the order from Enschede).

In winter, if there is more than a little bit of night frost I move them into a shed. Keeping them drier in winter is more important than warm.