On round pots, must the apex always break the lateral boundary?

trigo

Mame
Messages
117
Reaction score
171
Location
Paraná, Brazil
USDA Zone
10a
Ryan Neil says that on round pots the apex of the tree must always break lateral boundary of the pot, do you guys agree?? i see lots of round pots with centered trees on them... with their apexes also centered. If one goes with an harmonic design, shouldn't the pot also be symetrical with the tree? oval pots bring asymmetry to the composition right?
 

IzzyG

Shohin
Messages
379
Reaction score
2,244
Location
Milwaukee, WI
USDA Zone
5b
Like most things in Bonsai, there’s definitely subjectivity to the equation, plus an artist’s body of work/style. It’s no secret that Ryan’s tool kit uses 3 main techniques for aging a tree, one of which is asymmetry. But unlike others, he most definitely moves to a more committed asymmetrical push, which would explain his point regarding breaking lateral boundary on round pots(which is the strongest symmetrical shape). Oval pots have the play of “off center” positioning to help with asymmetry but he’s mentioned in the past that planting off center isn’t a tool he likes to use(which brings us back to the point above).

Do I agree with his point? For the most part, yes. But like everything else, it also depends. A formal upright, even with an asymmetrical design, might be hard pressed to break the lateral boundary(think chokkan style Hinoki cypress that tapers from a wide base).
 

trigo

Mame
Messages
117
Reaction score
171
Location
Paraná, Brazil
USDA Zone
10a
More of a guideline than a rule. What looks best to your eyes?
Like most things in Bonsai, there’s definitely subjectivity to the equation, plus an artist’s body of work/style. It’s no secret that Ryan’s tool kit uses 3 main techniques for aging a tree, one of which is asymmetry. But unlike others, he most definitely moves to a more committed asymmetrical push, which would explain his point regarding breaking lateral boundary on round pots(which is the strongest symmetrical shape). Oval pots have the play of “off center” positioning to help with asymmetry but he’s mentioned in the past that planting off center isn’t a tool he likes to use(which brings us back to the point above).

Do I agree with his point? For the most part, yes. But like everything else, it also depends. A formal upright, even with an asymmetrical design, might be hard pressed to break the lateral boundary(think chokkan style Hinoki cypress that tapers from a wide base).
In my eyes i don’t think it looks off to put the apex centered on a round pot, I’m new to this… but as @IzzyG said, when working with trees that are difficult to move the apex past the lateral of the pot, like a broom style tree for example… when you take his concepts of design, if you are going for an harmonic design won’t bringing asymmetry on the pot shape be bad for the general composition?

I’m new to bonsai, and I don’t really have any pots, so im starting to learn now about ceramics, that’s why I’m trying to pick your brains to understand this. I will go and buy some pots to test things out…
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,179
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
The reason mostly has to do with what's going in the pot. Round pots are generally used for asymmetric trees, like literati. They're informal and sometimes non-conformist. A formal upright tree, mostly, belongs in a more formal pot. Depends on the tree, or course.
 
Top Bottom