Once more about Mugo pines

[my nellie]

I have posted some questions of mine on another member's thread "Progression-Mugo pine from a nursery" because they were relative to the subject.
But I have been correctly advised to start my own thread.
So here it is!
But, someone from the Mods team will you please move my posts and relative answers here, so that there is a continuity...

I apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Vance Wood]

Why don't you post your original question here and we can start fresh and uncluttered? I am truly interested in your progress with this tree and look forward to any help I might add.

 

[my nellie]

Mr. Wood, thank you!
I greatly appreciate your time!
I will do as you suggested -no big deal copy/paste-

 

[my nellie]

This is what has been discussed on the other (Ric's) thread and I think I save some workload off Mods back

Hello!
May I ask about the soil of the nursery container... What kind was it and how did you handle the repotting process?
I am starting experimenting with mugo pines and I have bought one tree from a nursery.
My dilemma concerns the quality of the soil. It is a red, hard and compacted soil and I believe this will soon prove to be detrimental (even though the tree is happily growing for the moment).
How can I complete a repotting (at the appropriate time of course) safely?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance!

PS: I am aware of articles by Mr. Vance Wood regarding mugos as well as I have seen a lot of photos of his excellent bonsai made out of ordinary nursery material, but the first transplanting of a compacted nursery tree is bothering me.... So I need some instructions, please.

Do this anytime after Father's Day, or the middle of June. Remove the tree from the container. Remove as much of the soil from the top of the soil mass until you encounter roots;, you want to know how much of the soil mass is actual active and how much is just a bunch of junk piled in the top of the pot while the tree was in the nursery. This could be very little to a lot, it all depends.

Once accomplishing this, take a saw and saw at least one third to one half off of the bottom of the soil mass. Pick a couple of spots along the top of the soil mass, like taking a couple of slices out of a pie, and rinse out the soil as far back toward the trunk as possible. Leave the rest of the soil alone. You should remove at least two segments totaling about 1/3 of the remaining soil mass. Plant the tree into a well draining bonsai mix in a pond basket, collander, or specially designed bonsai planter and allow it at least three years before disturbing the roots again. Once you get to this point we can talk about what's next.

That's great help, Mr. Wood! And in the shortest of time, too!
In fact, I was surprised to see a lot of thin roots showing out of the top of the soil. I could never expect such shallow roots...! I have not poked about nebari. I assume I let those thin roots be as they are or not? I mean do I have to cover them with some soil until the time of transplanting?
Thank you!

... ... Mr. Wood, I am aware that you complete some interventions all together (branch chopping, re-potting etc) at the correct time.
Will you please inform me whether I can eliminate the unwanted branches now to keep only the necessary for the design and chop the apex to the desired height?
I feel rather reluctant to accomplish these drastic interventions at the same time with the repotting..., you see this is my fist attempt with a pine -generally not only mugo pine-

I usually leave my Mugos alone after November. A tree stores up energy to pull it through the winters in the branches. If you start eliminating them now, and too much or too many, you risk the tree. In my way of thinking I don't do anything heavy to them before the middle of June. Small branches, as long they are not more than one third the diameter of the trunk can be cut, but make sure you leave at least a one inch stub or you will lose portions of the trunk or larger branches they are connected to, due to a die back of the roots they were associated with.

By leaving a stub you fool those roots into acting like they have a job to do and they will gradually realign their affiliations without destroying portions of the trunk or larger branches. If you cut the larger branches flush to the source you instantly interrupt the root flow. That root flow goes up the trunk and the larger branches. What can happen is the total destruction of the life vain from the chop to the roots. Sometimes other elements can be associated with this vain and the interrupted resources can cause some unintended consequences.

And this is the last question -pending answer- :

Thank you so much, Mr. Wood!
Although my place of residence appears under my name, so you can assume the climate here is mediterranean (mild winter-dry hot summer)... I should have stated from the very beginning that I live in Europe hardiness zone 9. Does this make any difference in timing?
In June mean lower temperature here is about 21C (70F) and mean higher temp. is about 31C (88F)

 

[Vance Wood]

This is what has been discussed on the other (Ric's) thread and I think I save some workload off Mods back












And this is the last question -pending answer- :

Mugo Pine is an European native though it resides in the mountains it seems to do well in a variety of Climates. I suppose it remains to be seen how well it will do without a good hard freeze during the winter.

 

[buddhamonk]

unfortunately this thread makes no sense and started giving a headache. Moving on...

 

[Vance Wood]

unfortunately this thread makes no sense and started giving a headache. Moving on...

You ought to go see a doctor about that. Most people would leave without a word if they had no interest in what was being discussed. If I made a negative comment on every thread I took a look at and had no interest in I would be run off the forum.

 

[edprocoat]

You ought to go see a doctor about that. Most people would leave without a word if they had no interest in what was being discussed. If I made a negative comment on every thread I took a look at and had no interest in I would be run off the forum.

Amen brother, well said.

ed

 

[Zaelthus]

Amen brother, well said.

ed

+1

I could have used the "thanks" button but this just seemed more appropriate

 

[my nellie]

Thank you Mr. Wood!

... ...I suppose it remains to be seen how well it will do without a good hard freeze during the winter.

Yes, indeed! I will follow as I have been advised and I will post here any observations of mine.

 

[my nellie]

unfortunately this thread makes no sense and started giving a headache. Moving on...

Thank you for reading this thread. I do apologize for disturbing your... nirvana buddha monk. Unfortunately, it seems this thread makes some sense to Mr. V. Wood who kindly responds to my queries.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thank you for reading this thread. I do apologize for disturbing your... nirvana buddha monk. Unfortunately, it seems this thread makes some sense to Mr. V. Wood who kindly responds to my queries.

I have a great passion for the Mugo Pine and will support and or comment on any thread featuring this tree. I have always believed that the Mugo is, or was, understanding that more interest in the tree is growing, one of the most neglected, vilified, and poo-pooed subjects for bonsai use with more potential than many of the more traditionally accepted trees. I have fought this battle for more than thirty years, taking much criticism for it. That attitude still surfaces from time to time.

The Mugo has naturally short needles, back buds readily, is easy to work with if you know when to work it, it does not cost a lot to obtain decent material, is readily available and the end results are more than OK.

Just remember it is not a sin or requirement that we/you/me must comment on every thread that occurs on this forum. It is also no sin if there is no interest in any particular thread for you but to make negative comments expressing that disinterest is not only a wast of your time but a distraction for those interested in the particular subject under discussion. But---you can't blame a turd for the stink.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think you guys have seen this progression before but i think, in view of Nellie's interests, I will post it again. It really illustrates what you can get with an insignificant crumby piece of material provided you have an acceptable base to work with.

This little

Shohin Mugo is now about 8" tall, give or take half an inch. It started out in a 2 gallon nursery container and has been cut down to its present dimensions over the years.



You have to look at these pics in reverse order to kind of understand the progression.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Thanks for posting Vance. Can you tell me how many years this progression was in the pics you posted?

 

[frozenoak]

One of my local nurseries has a mugo on sale. In light of this thread I may just go down there and pick it up. I want to add a pine to my collection.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks for posting Vance. Can you tell me how many years this progression was in the pics you posted?

Roughly ten years. Bonsai takes time and that's the sad truth, but I'll be showing this tree this year.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Not to get off topic, but say this were a JBP, how much time do you think it would have taken for this progression to take place. My understanding is that Mugos are slow in comparison with most other species.

 

[Vance Wood]

Not to get off topic, but say this were a JBP, how much time do you think it would have taken for this progression to take place. My understanding is that Mugos are slow in comparison with most other species.

I don't think a bonsai this size would be really possible with a JBP without having to cut the needles to keep them in proportion. As to weather time would be an issue is unknown to me, I have not had the much experience with JBP until recently, they don't do well consistently here in Michigan----they are not too compatible with our winters. However I have not found my JBP's to develop faster than any of the Mugos I have. The problem I have found is that the buds tend to be too large and do not develop the graceful ramification possible with the Mugo.

 

[my nellie]

I have a great passion for the Mugo Pine and will support and or comment on any thread featuring this tree. I have always believed that the Mugo is, or was, understanding that more interest in the tree is growing, one of the most neglected, vilified, and poo-pooed subjects for bonsai use with more potential than many of the more traditionally accepted trees. I have fought this battle for more than thirty years, taking much criticism for it. That attitude still surfaces from time to time.... ...

Looks like the same was the belief of late Mr. John Naka. Mr. Walter Pall has been referring to J. N. during an interview with Bonsai Focus in 2008. Read this quote here. Using Ctrl+F, type Naka and you will find it easily.

 

[Vance Wood]

Looks like the same was the belief of late Mr. John Naka. Mr. Walter Pall has been referring to J. N. during an interview with Bonsai Focus in 2008. Read this quote here. Using Ctrl+F, type Naka and you will find it easily.

The Europeans see this tree as God intended it. In The US the tree is usually encountered in the nursery trade where its response to pruning and shearing has pretty much relegated it to the classification of "Shrub". As such most serious bonsai growers in this country look upon the Mugo as a sub-standard species suitable only for beginners that you cannot talk into using some very expensive pre-bonsai JBP or some expensive and fussy collected tree, or too ignorant to understand that the Mugo is a horrible tree.

The point is this: The Mugo has small needles to begin with and become significantly shorter under bonsai culture. It is capable of forming really good trunks and mature looking bark though maybe not as nice as JBP, but bark is not everything. The Mugo is capable of enduring the kinds of mistakes a beginner will make, specifically over watering, and you can repot the tree almost anytime after the middle of June. It back buds fairly well if done properly and the results are surprising at times. Sometimes I almost feel guilty because they are so easy to work with as long as you understand it's differences from the standard two needle model based upon the JBP.