Opinions on Turface

Leo in N E Illinois

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The article in this url below explains a lot about the physical properties of commonly used inorganic components. Even though it is from a website pertaining to orchids I found it to be very informative on the micro structure and internal porosity of turface (lightweight expanded clay aggregate), diatomaceous earth, pumice, and scoria.



First Ray's website is quite the resource. The fertilizer information in the "free information" section of his website is priceless. The fertilizer calculator is a great tool once you figure out what levels of nutrients you want. I've known the owner, strictly through "the internets and email" for over 30 years. Ray Barkalow is a stand up guy and a materials engineer. He has the science background to really back up the information and products he sells. You can tell which products he believes in, and trusts the science. And which products he stocks because his customers want them, that he doesn't use himself. Ray mostly is just orchid plants, but to a large degree, orchids and bonsai are both plants grown in synthetic substrates, which means because the substrates are synthetic, they have similar nutrition needs. Ray is the source of one of the better brands of Kelp available.
 

markyscott

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Where do North Easterners get their lava rock? I've found one local source for pumice (MJ grow shop), and 8822 is easy, but haven't found lava rock yet.

Illinois

New Jersey
 

BuckeyeOne

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Where do North Easterners get their lava rock? I've found one local source for pumice (MJ grow shop), and 8822 is easy, but haven't found lava rock yet.
 
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First Ray's website is quite the resource. The fertilizer information in the "free information" section of his website is priceless. The fertilizer calculator is a great tool once you figure out what levels of nutrients you want. I've known the owner, strictly through "the internets and email" for over 30 years. Ray Barkalow is a stand up guy and a materials engineer. He has the science background to really back up the information and products he sells. You can tell which products he believes in, and trusts the science. And which products he stocks because his customers want them, that he doesn't use himself. Ray mostly is just orchid plants, but to a large degree, orchids and bonsai are both plants grown in synthetic substrates, which means because the substrates are synthetic, they have similar nutrition needs. Ray is the source of one of the better brands of Kelp available.


I grow a lot of various orchid species in s/h (because of him) and while I don't know him personally, I have been continuously returning to his website for several years to purchase merchandise and review the information in his guides. As I understand it -he is the inventor of s/h using LECA or at least the guy who popularized it. I have found much of the information he provides pertaining to soil media, and of course fertilization to be applicable to bonsai/orchid/cacti/carnivorous plants cultivation. I owe him a lot of gratitude.
 

_#1_

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Am I reading that correctly as $10.25 for a 50-pound bag of lava?
That is correct. If you get a chance to make it out there, get a couple bags and you're set for a long while.

Use straight out the bag too. Only a very very minute amount of fines at the bottom of the bag.
 

Warlock

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I've used Turface for over 20 years too, closer to 35+ years. I have gone from loving it, to hating it to loving it again.

So use it if it is convenient and cost of better media is an issue.

I hate it as "sole component" mix. To my mind, in my experience, it should be less than 50% of what is in the mix.

In mixes it is great stuff, adds water retention. Light weight for big grow out containers and cheap enough for "sticks in pots".
These days, last 10 years I use it as a component in mixes, usually with pumice, DE, fir bark or pine bark. I never use it alone. All my mixes are at least 3 components.

I ran into trouble using it as a sole component. That was the least satisfactory period of my experience with Turface.

I know some use it as sole component, 100% Turface, their experience is not my experience. Just reporting my results.
Thanks.. Good info there
 
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I've never used turface, so I can't comment. But I thought I'd pass on Michael Hagedorn's comments in case you haven't seen it before. They're similar to what @Leo in N E Illinois said, but he goes a step further and says if possible, you're better off not using it at all.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I've seen a small number of nice trees grown in Turface, therefore I can not be "dogmatic" in my dislike of Turface. I definitely do not use Turface as a 100% component for potting media. I believe at 25% or less, as a component in a mix, it is not a "horrible ingredient". Much depends on how you use it. Key is all the components of a mix should be in the same size particle range. In other words, if your Turface is 1/16 to 3/16 inch particle, do not blend it with pumice that is 1/4 to 1/2 inch particle size. The result will be a mix that has less air voids than either component in isolation.

I have pretty much quit using Turface. I've used up all my old supply, and will not be buying any more in the future.

Pumice is the one component that is the best "main component" of any mix. Even in Japan almost all potting mix designs have a major component of pumice. Pumice can even be used for conifers, particularly pines and junipers, as 100% of the potting media. No other "magic media" has as good a track record as pumice.
 

Paradox

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I've used it Hoffman bonsai soil mix for my shohin chinese elm and a couple of other small trees. I know it is an ingredient in that mix.
I use it because its pre mixed and small size for that little tree. I do mix it again with pumice and lava that I have sifted to match the size of the Hoffman mix
For my larger trees, I use a lava, pumice and akadama mix.
Since I havent really had any trouble getting those components for my larger trees, I wouldnt buy turface for those
 

hinmo24t

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I grow in nothing but MVP, in pots ranging from 1 inch-ish to 19 inches and generally less than 3 inches deep - about 200 individual plants of 50 plus species and close to 100 different varieties. Even though my collection has diversified over time, I've been using it for about a decade now. I would like a larger average grain size for a few species, junipers in shallow pots (under 2 inches deep) in particular. On the other hand, I think it is fabulous for acers of all ilks, producing great root ramification, but some now disdain 'cotton candy' roots.

As I already said, it has been close to a decade now, straight out of the bag, no sifting. I use Osmocote-plus fert or sometimes an ordinary balanced chem fert. I never put shit in it as 'organic fertilizer' is what leads to the infamous 'turfcrete'. If you are devoted to organic ferts, you should either put it in teabags or not use Turface at all.

It does not break down. It does not compact. It is denser than water, so I clean and reuse mine --> throw it in a bucket of water, skim off prills, dead roots, and other organic bits that float, drain, rinse and repeat until the water is clear before reuse. I'm still using the contents of the first bag I bought (need I say it again?) for about a decade ago now.

See markyscott's Introductory Soil Physics thread to compare hydraulic/aerobic properties to other substrates and the Introductory Soil Reference Sheet Resource for a cost comparison.
mic drop with that objectivity
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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mic drop with that objectivity

Keep in mind the climate at @0soyoung 's place is near ideal. And the water quality he has is very low in dissolved solids. With his water and climate, I could grow beautiful trees in shredded rubber tires or just plain rocks.

Your local water quality is important in determining what is your best substrate.
 

hinmo24t

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Keep in mind the climate at @0soyoung 's place is near ideal. And the water quality he has is very low in dissolved solids. With his water and climate, I could grow beautiful trees in shredded rubber tires or just plain rocks.

Your local water quality is important in determining what is your best substrate.
good point, i believe you. 100% rainwater here, yewww
i like the tire and rocks analogy too
 
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