Orange dream help

Bonsainoob88

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Hi everyone, I have this orange dream I bought from a nursery. When I bought it I pulled from pot but didnt disturb the rootball. Then filled space in new slightly bigger pot with a crappy miracle gro soil. I planned to repot next spring in some good stuff or possibly ground it . I dont think I over water it as its left to nearly dry out before watering and the rain doesn't really hit the soil from where its positioned
Everything was alright until a couple of weeks ago when all the new growth started coming in blackened and shrivelled. Also lots of tips on leaves are blackened . I have defoliated most of the bad leaves then sprayed once this week with systemic fungal spray incase it was anthracnose what I've read quite a bit on . I dont think its sun scorch because we havent had very sunny weather and all it really does up here is rain and cloudy . After defoliating it has tried to push out lots of new growth but it's all black and shrivelled. Oh yeah and I have been feeding weekly with pictured feed .

In summary I think it's either bad soil and not watering with rainwater combined, or a problem with over fertilizing or fungal.

Any opinions appreciated as I'm not sure what's going on here
 

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cmeg1

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Looks scortch or drying.....change of light intensity or stress.
Govern your light exposure and ph your solution/water.
Looks like non organic fertlizer source so ph 5.8-6.4
And back off on light exposure....follow instructions on bottle.....it will recover....go with the weaker strength option if it siggests dosages.It will eventualky start pushing new growth.
I have these indoors and am experimenting for future propogation.Mine started pushing after a month of complete barerooting into hydro soil.

definately looks a bit stressed from light exposure differances/malnutrition........ph water/nutrient.....probably only needs 4 drops a gallon of either up or down.
Does not like npk on leaves.

the fulvic and humic acid is the bomb.....good stuf will help assimilate calcium!!!!



 

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cmeg1

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Actually the humic and fulvic acid is great at chelating nutrients.........you cannput calcium uptake on steroids by adding amino acids............namely the L glycine & L glutamate are specifically responsible for creating masses of calcium ion channels on roots.
 

Bonsainoob88

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Looks scortch or drying.....change of light intensity or stress.
Govern your light exposure and ph your solution/water.
Looks like non organic fertlizer source so ph 5.8-6.4
And back off on light exposure....follow instructions on bottle.....it will recover....go with the weaker strength option if it siggests dosages.It will eventualky start pushing new growth.
I have these indoors and am experimenting for future propogation.Mine started pushing after a month of complete barerooting into hydro soil.

definately looks a bit stressed from light exposure differances/malnutrition........ph water/nutrient.....probably only needs 4 drops a gallon of either up or down.
Does not like npk on leaves.

the fulvic and humic acid is the bomb.....good stuf will help assimilate calcium!!!!



Ok thanks for your input, I'm thinking could be under watering if this looks like scorch to you . Theres no way after last few weeks weather it could of had too much sun if it was watered well . Also perhaps the hard water aswell not helping , I need to start collecting rainwater (next project). It does already try to push new growth , however it's like the picture which made me think it could be fungal.
 

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cmeg1

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Your fertilizer has kelp.....kelp no more than weekly on leaves....never npk on leaves

Kelp will burn more than once a week foliar.......I use it regularly.....looks like good fertilizer you have........ph is missing ingrediant though!
 

cmeg1

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Ok thanks for your input, I'm thinking could be under watering if this looks like scorch to you . Theres no way after last few weeks weather it could of had too much sun if it was watered well . Also perhaps the hard water aswell not helping , I need to start collecting rainwater (next project).
Ok if water is hard add amino acids in the form of hydrosylates?......the natural made ones.Will make available nutrients.If hard over 200 ppm.

if you use rainDEFINATELY PH.
Trust me...ph everything
 

Bonsainoob88

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I wish it was next spring already, I came into this hobby massively unprepared this year and had a very sharp learning curve so far . Hopefully I can get my plants through the winter and Next year will be so much better. I see trees are green and all that 🤣
 

Bonsainoob88

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Ok if water is hard add amino acids in the form of hydrosylates?......the natural made ones.Will make available nutrients.If hard over 200 ppm.

if you use rainDEFINATELY PH.
Trust me...ph everything
When you say if you use rainwater definitely PH , do you mean it will be the right PH ?
 

cmeg1

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When you say if you use rainwater definitely PH , do you mean it will be the right PH ?
Rainwater is nearly pure and will plummet ph the instant you add fertilizer or be extremely unstabel......trees will nearly die in mnths.
Have to add nutrients to rain and ph otherwise it will suck nutrients right out of plant in a rocky bobsai soil.....in earth ground rain is the bomb
 

Bonsainoob88

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So let me get this straight, if I water with tap water it is too alkaline , if I water with rain water it is too pure so additives must be used ? And if using rainwater on bonsai substrate , my plant will die when I add fertiliser because it has became unstable .
Everything I have read this far has said use rainwater where possible, now you come along and throw this in the works I am lost again 🤷‍♂️

So, basically from what you have said, looking after bonsai trees is much the same as keeping a woman happy on her period (sorry ladies). 🤭
 

cmeg1

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Just the facts.....been there with the rain water thing.....It is actually very fun when everything is dialed in
 

Rivian

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This has nothing to do with nutrients, it is fungal. I had the exact same thing. Had to throw away my large JM and small orange dream because of it, and because I understood it being fungal too late. Other maples got infected too but are recovering since I gave them a few sprays with fungicide.
I may post pictures later.
 

Bonsainoob88

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This has nothing to do with nutrients, it is fungal. I had the exact same thing. Had to throw away my large JM and small orange dream because of it, and because I understood it being fungal too late. Other maples got infected too but are recovering since I gave them a few sprays with fungicide.
I may post pictures
Rivian post your pictures to help the community please
 

Rivian

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Look closely at the righthand side of the last image you posted and compare with these
4.jpg5.jpg6.jpg3.jpg2.jpg1.jpg

At the point I noticed it was fungal it had spread through the whole plant, and every new shoot got infected. Also discarded the infected successfull airlayers, though I might have been able to save them with fungicides, I know in the forest young maples can get harsh fungal diseases and still recover and grow up to be big trees, sometimes.
 

Bonsainoob88

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Yes very similar indeed . I just need to keep up with the fungicide and see how it goes . Hopefully i caught it quick enough .
 

Rivian

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Yes very similar indeed . I just need to keep up with the fungicide and see how it goes . Hopefully i caught it quick enough .
Remove any parts that show obvious signs of infection first
 
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Rainwater is nearly pure and will plummet ph the instant you add fertilizer or be extremely unstabel......trees will nearly die in mnths.
Have to add nutrients to rain and ph otherwise it will suck nutrients right out of plant in a rocky bobsai soil.....in earth ground rain is the bomb
strange you say that I water my 15 maples including Orange Dream with rain water and mountain stream water in my backyard, no additives at all and no problem, I started the spring with a late dosage of cottonseed meal 6/2/1 and in the summer 6 weeks later switched over to Jack's classic inorganic blue stuff fertilizer(20/20/20) and use a quarter of a dosage so I guess it becomes 5/5/5, twice a month, unless temps go above 90F then i cut that quarter dosage in half. Most of my maples except my local red maple are in akdama/pumice/pinebark 45/45/10 mix. My Orange Dream is in nursery soil from a 3 gallon that I slip up potted into a 5 gallon and filled the sides with akadama 1/4", same regiment of water and fertilizer as everything else.

Photos are of Orange Dream and OD airlayer, the mother tree is a grafted Orange Dream from a wholesale grower in Oregon, I think it was Whitmans. The airlayer is in 40/40/20 1/8" akadama/spagnum/1/4"pumice. All my trees sit in shade most of the day and are exposed to full sun for 2-3 hours then shady sun another 4-6 hours, they get 0 morning sun because there is a mountain in the way.

DSC_0543.JPGDSC_0736.JPG20200725_183230.jpg DSC_0477 (2).jpg
 
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