Orange dream maple seed sources

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I know the seedlings wont be considered an orange dream.

Im looking for a supplier of seeds for landscaping, and i dont want to spend a few thousand dollars on a named cultivar.

Does anybody have any examples of the colors that i might expect from a seed grown tree? Thanks in advance!

Casey
 

Lorax7

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Not only will the seedings not “be considered an orange dream”, they’re unlikely to look like orange dream because the fresh DNA introduced by pollination is likely to eliminate expression of recessive traits that are responsible for making orange dream look the way it does. A better approach would be to buy an orange dream specimen from a nursery and propagate via grafting to ordinary Japanese maple rootstock that you grow yourself from seed. That’s what nurseries do.

Bonus side-effect: you’ll have considerable experience with grafting by the time you’re done, which is a useful skill to have for bonsai.
 

River's Edge

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I know the seedlings wont be considered an orange dream.

Im looking for a supplier of seeds for landscaping, and i dont want to spend a few thousand dollars on a named cultivar.

Does anybody have any examples of the colors that i might expect from a seed grown tree? Thanks in advance!

Casey
If you go online to Sheffields Seed they have pictures depicting the color and form of varieties! As pointed out though seed varies and results can be differrent. One option is to buy one cultivar and produce more by cuttings, airlayer or grafting on rootstock. Expecting similar results from seed is not reasonable in my opinion.
 

John P.

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I bought my Orange Dream tree from MendocinoMaples.com and can highly recommend them.

Consistent with the other responses, I suggest you buy the biggest tree(s) you can, and airlayer them. You’ll be so far ahead of the curve vs seedlings, and they’ll actually be the trees you want.
 
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The idea that i have in mind is to have the property outlined with Italian cypress (for privacy), with different accent trees along the way. Im looking for vibrant flowering, and well as trees that have a nice fall color.
 

GGB

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Recessive trait = less likely, but totally there. I think it’s a shame specific “cultivar seeds “ have no market. Some of us wanna play. You get it.
 

SouthernMaple

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I bought my Orange Dream tree from MendocinoMaples.com and can highly recommend them.

Consistent with the other responses, I suggest you buy the biggest tree(s) you can, and airlayer them. You’ll be so far ahead of the curve vs seedlings, and they’ll actually be the trees you want.
yeah i just looked at buying one too until I saw the extra 40 bucks to ship it out here
 

Pitoon

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yeah i just looked at buying one too until I saw the extra 40 bucks to ship it out here

I hope to have some available next summer if you don't pick one up by then. Mendocino and most other larger nurseries are on the west coast. The shipping is the only down side to buying from the west coast, most times if you are buying one tree the shipping will cost more than the tree itself.
 

Pitoon

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Almost in your backyard. I've purchased from here, 2nd yr grafts, all healthy and for reasonable prices.

@Dav4 very interesting. My plans are to open a nursery as well within the next several years. However I will be focusing on non grafted or extremely low grafted material. Hopefully I can bring my ideas to fruition.
 

Dav4

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@Dav4 very interesting. My plans are to open a nursery as well within the next several years. However I will be focusing on non grafted or extremely low grafted material. Hopefully I can bring my ideas to fruition.
Obviously, the nursery I linked above is for general landscape trees and not for material destined for bonsai. Good luck with your plans... I hope I will one day be a customer!
 

Pitoon

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Obviously, the nursery I linked above is for general landscape trees and not for material destined for bonsai. Good luck with your plans... I hope I will one day be a customer!

Thanks! I'm looking to be geared towards pre-bonsai much like how they do in Japan in which propagators sell to finishers.
 
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What legalities would a person face with selling named cultivars? Would you have to call them something else? Or would you have to pay royalties to the person/company that owns the patent? I too would like to start a nursery one day.
 

Pitoon

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You could face legal issues if you propagate patented plants. Patents on plants only last 20yrs so you just have to check when the patent was initiated or pay the royalties to the owner. Not to rain on your parade, but you will have some tough competition being in Cali, there's a lot of large well established nurseries there.
 

Viridian Bonsai

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You could face legal issues if you propagate patented plants. Patents on plants only last 20yrs so you just have to check when the patent was initiated or pay the royalties to the owner. Not to rain on your parade, but you will have some tough competition being in Cali, there's a lot of large well established nurseries there.
I wonder what the legalities are in selling bonsai created from these patented cultivars? I’m currently developing some Thuja occidentalis ‘Islprim’ Primo* which is a dwarf cultivar of Eastern White Cedar patented by Iseli Nursery. I also wonder if these patents are effective in Canada, where I live, since they are registered in the USA? Where could I check to see when this particular cultivar was patented?

Not that I’m planning on selling any of these in the near future (before the patent runs out), but it’s interesting to think about.
 
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Ininaatigoons

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That is an interesting question! I know nothing on this subject, but I think plant patents are there to protect against propagation. For instance I don't think you can layer a patented tree because it is unlawful to reproduce asexually any plant/tree with a patent. But, once you own a tree. That particular tree could probably be sold as the royalty was already paid when originally purchased. Plant patents can be renewed and usually are until it's no longer making money. Man it would be awesome to find someone who could explain plant patent law.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Man it would be awesome to find someone who could explain plant patent law.
It lasts for 20 years from the date of filing.

It is basically there to protect the inventor/discoverer of a "distinct and new" plant variety from having someone asexually reproduce the plant and sell it for $$$. Though it is illegal (according to the letter of the law) for you to asexually reproduce one of these plants in your own garden (while it is under patent protection), I have never heard of anyone caring to enforce the law... unless you try to sell the plant(s) at a volume significant enough to cause commercial harm to the patent owner.

Note that a plant patent is different from a trademark on the name of the plant. A patent may expire, but you may still be prevented from selling the plant material using the name. A good example would be a nursery like Nuccio's in LA, which has several named cultivars in wide commercial distribution using the nursery's name. For example "Nuccio's Pearl" or "Nuccio's Gem" in camellias. If you plan on going into wide production on Nuccio's Gem, I would contact an intellectual property law attorney before you did so. After the patent expires (if it hasn't already done so) you might have to sell it as "Pretty Gem". Trademark protection may exist even if the owner never files for a trademark.

I am not an intellectual property attorney - I only had a single class in intellectual property law :)
 
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dbonsaiw

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Propagating patented cultivars surely presents legal issues, although as BonsaiNut stated I can't imagine the patent holders care about what we do in our backyards. Reselling patented/trademarked material seems to present a different issue. There is a concept called the "first-sale rule" which allows one to resell patented/trademarked goods bought legally on the market. For example, nothing wrong with me reselling my patented and trademarked Mickey Mouse watch on Ebay. If I develop a cultivar into a bonsai and resell it as a bonsai of that cultivar, I'm not sure I have violated anyone's intellectual property rights. If I propagate it, I violate the patent (and trademark). If I sell a random JM as the cultivar JM, I violate the trademark. If I neither propagate nor hold out a product as something it is not, what's the problem?
 
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