OUTDOOR PROPOGATION USING DIFFERENT HYDROPONIC GROWING MEDIA

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
THE STONEWOOL BLOCKS ABSOLUTELY FILL WITH ROOTS EVENTUALLY


This way there is no soggy issues with stonewool whatsoever…..It is made of volcanic basalt stone that will never degrade….actual volcano stone.Molten lava…….they say everything grows great eventually on lava fields around volcanos…..When seed finally germinates.

So here we are into August these were set out in the spring and they are finally getting very dense root filled stonewool blocks a lot of them… this gives a super advantage at the start ,I believe ,…….very dense air-pruning and a very healthy start with more roots to take in nutrient and plant growth elements.

******These are only @ 5 months old seedling cuttings*****
EAD1219F-3877-4E9A-9E1A-813322EF7889.jpeg4C8FEAF4-FC59-4F40-BC0B-1A697AE802D6.jpeg7C1F9AE4-B503-4DFD-A2D9-3B9D3FEA38D3.jpeg
 

hinmo24t

Masterpiece
Messages
2,480
Reaction score
3,166
Location
Dartmouth Massachusetts
USDA Zone
7A
THE STONEWOOL BLOCKS ABSOLUTELY FILL WITH ROOTS EVENTUALLY


This way there is no soggy issues with stonewool whatsoever…..It is made of volcanic basalt stone that will never degrade….actual volcano stone.Molten lava…….they say everything grows great eventually on lava fields around volcanos…..When seed finally germinates.

So here we are into August these were set out in the spring and they are finally getting very dense root filled stonewool blocks a lot of them… this gives a super advantage at the start ,I believe ,…….very dense air-pruning and a very healthy start with more roots to take in nutrient and plant growth elements.

******These are only @ 5 months old seedling cuttings*****
they do look great and ill be damned if youre not getting paid by the makers of stonewool, you should
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,445
Reaction score
16,083
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
They look great. They are a lot more developed than my seedlings.
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
Japanese Larch seedlings


These have been growing since very early Spring.They start of so vulnerable and slow at first that I started them indoors in a controlled environment until they got past that stage……they would of damped off for sure outside.

Anyways they will be fun…I love when these get secondary ramification and the Winter twigs and buds.

I will start these back into growth after a short dormancy in the hydro setup.

I will not stop till’ I have some very decent trunks……These are very easy to get a nice shape going….probably by next Autumn they will be nice and large size.I plan to develop these to a larger size…..like 2” trunk base.

There are over 200 of them.They need spread out and more sun on lower branches.82F29E9B-FF2B-4355-8308-2AC4D76BD628.jpeg982399A0-4833-40EF-984C-24DCF4644004.jpeg7B8277D5-97D4-45A1-A9DB-628B7AF00A9D.jpeg19E9BF1A-9CE0-4BB5-A5E3-220C193EE263.jpegB43E0EC3-5747-4CF8-AD34-60F34B8A32DB.jpeg733FD9C9-23AD-44E8-A81D-67856392E249.jpegF8C81D40-070C-416D-9F01-DCEFE52850A9.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
PLANTING ABOUT 75 JAPANESE LARCH INTO 3” STONEWOOL BLOCKS TODAY!!!
INDOOR CROPS OF SIBERIAN ELM ALSO!!

These are fun.I am dunking them into kelp foliar today for about 10 minutes…They will have more sunlight the rest of the season and will stand on their own……after a short 8 week dormancy they will go into co2 fertilized growing and probably the duration of next growing season till that Autumn…….We’ll see how deveoped they will get…..and then an all indoor started crop too.

****I did the same thing with Siberian elm I have 140 of them all indoor because I noticed how well the air layer did and just about eight months time*****

See pics below.421EDAB3-A452-4622-84BB-3DC1F77E9A9B.jpeg686E379F-DF81-416B-933F-DEA4EFDDF0EB.jpeg61FA9BAC-CCCD-43F1-ABA2-EFABE9B6DE9B.jpegE9331AAB-FA4B-43D3-B584-4096BC655E0B.jpegE5BB7DFE-B3DD-4F35-AE00-FE0CFA8B6749.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
These larch are root pruning very nicely in the mini blocks!!

I’m always amazed at the base of the trunks after I take them out of the blocks because they don’t even root until about one half to 2/3 down into the block.I plant them very deeply because are usually such long sprouts.
So hopefully get some nice trunks. It almost makes air-layering obsolete unless you’re looking for total perfection.

***Note the elm*** after I removed the mini block. These little one and a half inch and 2 inch mini blocks can make some very high-quality starter seedlings.
98797EB7-3490-4EF5-92B1-123AF153EF06.jpeg94297846-F449-4ADA-92A2-329F135BA0B9.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
ALL PLANTED……Now more seed

I’ll boost up the potassium a little bit no sense over fertilize and I want them to photosynthesize now and get them roots nice and chunky that’s everything for seedlings anyway……Great Autumn project!!!! 6640263F-6488-4801-B519-E4F897F92B8C.jpeg9ED7D704-E650-4834-AF7C-E95C5E824473.jpegD69D0563-17FE-4CFB-993E-D9953B2BDA4E.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
BURNING BUSH….other projects too.

These burning bush are the most hardy and durable trees ever.I am very pleased with these and will propogate a tray every year and eventually these will look very ,very nice.Early starts in the co2 for sure….I am curious on these about back budding and growth pushes……only one a year? Wow.

Everything else is looking great.The small three small pine cuttings in the big blocks were started in late January! Big time growth on these!

You can see the Siberian Elm too…….an all indoor crop on the way over winter.

And the newly transplanted Larch and also the seedling pines are nice…….the pines are regular seedlings only started indoors in mid-May!!! 3 mnts!!!49A4BECF-0AA2-4CBC-AF1D-39BA3C70FC49.jpeg06CFF74A-8DC2-4D9C-B2C0-21C458D349A1.jpegE839F238-5844-4F00-A990-85760F496178.jpeg2342CB8D-FCF3-4485-BF84-B8D6880E3ED2.jpegF380BAFD-C677-45C7-99D2-441861776C9A.jpeg8FC3874F-5945-4564-9818-0A398CC506D0.jpeg100B76D3-D41F-4D27-A489-C0FD2B2D6098.jpeg734D3FA3-31FC-4021-B5D7-C70F7D624749.jpegBCF3EBD0-FC87-493C-B1FE-A03CFEA9D072.jpegC2BDB82C-8FAC-443D-BC7F-B8B65B1C566F.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
JAPANESE LARCH GETTING FULLER

The roots are just starting to fill the 3” Delta blocks.I can only imagine they will get more healthy and full as we go into Autmumn through to dormancy.
It is showing already just two weeks after planting and can see the red tipped roots poking through.This will really improve the overall vigor!
I am not feeding excessively strong,just increasing the potassium slightly for good budding and maturity all around.
9A13AB74-A594-49F6-827E-F3C719E227F9.jpegA1841E64-DC11-4217-802D-37103CE372E8.jpeg06594749-936C-452C-B5D8-B1E96607D011.jpeg
 

WavyGaby

Shohin
Messages
373
Reaction score
653
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7b
THE STONEWOOL BLOCKS ABSOLUTELY FILL WITH ROOTS EVENTUALLY


This way there is no soggy issues with stonewool whatsoever…..It is made of volcanic basalt stone that will never degrade….actual volcano stone.Molten lava…….they say everything grows great eventually on lava fields around volcanos…..When seed finally germinates.

So here we are into August these were set out in the spring and they are finally getting very dense root filled stonewool blocks a lot of them… this gives a super advantage at the start ,I believe ,…….very dense air-pruning and a very healthy start with more roots to take in nutrient and plant growth elements.

******These are only @ 5 months old seedling cuttings*****
View attachment 451024View attachment 451025View attachment 451026
Thanks so much for sharing your methods. I've been encouraged by your posts to start my own batch of JBP this year. I water automatically with tap water and I noticed quite a stall in growth in late spring and early summer when it wasn't raining much, and all I fertilized with was Joy organic Japanese cubes made for bonsai. I suspect that the tap water around 7.8 ph was not allowing for optimal absorption of nutrients and the rain wasn't coming to help balance ph.
Since mid July, or so, we have had much more rain and I started using your feeding program (or hybrid) including liquid humic acid, kelp, amino acid, cal/mag and all purpose 20/20/20 fertilizer in low concentration 1x a week. I give kelp and humic foliar 1x week too. I ph to around 6.0. I have seen great growth in my JBP and other developing bonsai since starting this and I thank you again!

I've attached some photos of some of my seedling cut JBP. I have two more flats too. I had some extra seedlings that I placed in groups of 2 or 3 as shown. One pot in particular has a group of 3 JBP that have above average growth but the color is really light and yellow. I suspect from nutrient def since they are fighting for it all in the pot. I transferred out the biggest yellowed JBP and placed it in its own pot as shown. It appears to be healthy except the needles fall off easier and the color is off. Do you have any ideas what is going in with this one?

Also, I bought the raw powder humic, kelp and full up per your recommendation and I'm excited to switch to that when I run out of my other stuff soon.

Cheers!
 

Attachments

  • 20220902_173311_compress7.jpg
    20220902_173311_compress7.jpg
    276.2 KB · Views: 18
  • 20220903_163924_compress53.jpg
    20220903_163924_compress53.jpg
    339.6 KB · Views: 18
  • 20220903_163944_compress83.jpg
    20220903_163944_compress83.jpg
    286.9 KB · Views: 18

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
Thanks so much for sharing your methods. I've been encouraged by your posts to start my own batch of JBP this year. I water automatically with tap water and I noticed quite a stall in growth in late spring and early summer when it wasn't raining much, and all I fertilized with was Joy organic Japanese cubes made for bonsai. I suspect that the tap water around 7.8 ph was not allowing for optimal absorption of nutrients and the rain wasn't coming to help balance ph.
Since mid July, or so, we have had much more rain and I started using your feeding program (or hybrid) including liquid humic acid, kelp, amino acid, cal/mag and all purpose 20/20/20 fertilizer in low concentration 1x a week. I give kelp and humic foliar 1x week too. I ph to around 6.0. I have seen great growth in my JBP and other developing bonsai since starting this and I thank you again!

I've attached some photos of some of my seedling cut JBP. I have two more flats too. I had some extra seedlings that I placed in groups of 2 or 3 as shown. One pot in particular has a group of 3 JBP that have above average growth but the color is really light and yellow. I suspect from nutrient def since they are fighting for it all in the pot. I transferred out the biggest yellowed JBP and placed it in its own pot as shown. It appears to be healthy except the needles fall off easier and the color is off. Do you have any ideas what is going in with this one?

Also, I bought the raw powder humic, kelp and full up per your recommendation and I'm excited to switch to that when I run out of my other stuff soon.

Cheers!
The ph is definately everything good at the moment!!!!
Organic look so much fun…..be sure to add a little mycorhiza innoculant since the phosphorous is probably of organic origin……. Organic phosphorus needs mycorrhiza….. regular phospherous like salt based does not need mychorhiza and the roots actually expell mycorrhiza for a pathogen.Mychorhiza only needed for organic phosphate breakdown and absorption to an ionic form.

The soil looks good definitely no potting soil good draining!!!

your tapwater is it springwater or city tap?
if it’s city tap it probably has chlorine or worse chloromine I will definitely get a cheap 75 gallon per day RO filter….. if you have city tap and even if you want better you can even use it to your well water……… it will get rid of all the junk mineral that may be too large anyway to be absorbed especially city tapwater.

it will improve everything even more trust me RO and rainwater is essentially pure and is the bomb.

I would definitely add the black powder humic acid to your pure water if you do go the RO route it will add some much-needed mineral…. that way the pure water doesn’t suck mineral right out of the roots pure water will do that in hydroponic soil which is what you are using it is stones……. Rainwater is good for clay soil loaded with tons of mineral….. not stones…..Pure water draws calcium out of the roots and a few other very important minerals ,so definitely add the black humic acid powder if you use RO water or rain on a regular basis.
Black humic acid powder has much natural mineral is great for hydro………. Specifically if going the organic cake route and pouring water over them you want some mineral in that water.

pure water with the addition of humic acid is way better than the mineral in your water everybody says the plants use it but it is not largely that true a lot of it is way too large to be even absorbed and does nothing but diminish ability for roots to absorb water because they are salt ions.

PH definitely is what fix your trees up pH between 5.5-6.5 is absolutely essential in hydroponic or stony soil ……..clay soils it’s not terribly big of a deal because the rain is what it is and the soil are very well buffered and actually hard to change unless you’re dumping lime into it.

So essentially what I’m saying if you’re using well water or city tapwater you can make everything a step up if you filter the water with a cheap RO filter….. you can get them for 100 bucks and you can rebuild your water it’s absolutely great!!!
 

WavyGaby

Shohin
Messages
373
Reaction score
653
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7b
The ph is definately everything good at the moment!!!!
Organic look so much fun…..be sure to add a little mycorhiza innoculant since the phosphorous is probably of organic origin……. Organic phosphorus needs mycorrhiza….. regular phospherous like salt based does not need mychorhiza and the roots actually expell mycorrhiza for a pathogen.Mychorhiza only needed for organic phosphate breakdown and absorption to an ionic form.

The soil looks good definitely no potting soil good draining!!!

your tapwater is it springwater or city tap?
if it’s city tap it probably has chlorine or worse chloromine I will definitely get a cheap 75 gallon per day RO filter….. if you have city tap and even if you want better you can even use it to your well water……… it will get rid of all the junk mineral that may be too large anyway to be absorbed especially city tapwater.

it will improve everything even more trust me RO and rainwater is essentially pure and is the bomb.

I would definitely add the black powder humic acid to your pure water if you do go the RO route it will add some much-needed mineral…. that way the pure water doesn’t suck mineral right out of the roots pure water will do that in hydroponic soil which is what you are using it is stones……. Rainwater is good for clay soil loaded with tons of mineral….. not stones…..Pure water draws calcium out of the roots and a few other very important minerals ,so definitely add the black humic acid powder if you use RO water or rain on a regular basis.
Black humic acid powder has much natural mineral is great for hydro………. Specifically if going the organic cake route and pouring water over them you want some mineral in that water.

pure water with the addition of humic acid is way better than the mineral in your water everybody says the plants use it but it is not largely that true a lot of it is way too large to be even absorbed and does nothing but diminish ability for roots to absorb water because they are salt ions.

PH definitely is what fix your trees up pH between 5.5-6.5 is absolutely essential in hydroponic or stony soil ……..clay soils it’s not terribly big of a deal because the rain is what it is and the soil are very well buffered and actually hard to change unless you’re dumping lime into it.

So essentially what I’m saying if you’re using well water or city tapwater you can make everything a step up if you filter the water with a cheap RO filter….. you can get them for 100 bucks and you can rebuild your water it’s absolutely great!!!
Thanks for the reply and additional advice. I forgot to mention that I am using rain water from my downspout barrell for nutrients 1x week and city supplied tap water for the foliar (since you recommended not using rain water due to pathogens).
I did not know that about the phosphorus. However, I am using the Microbe Hydro Vitamins and Amino Acids which contains myco.
The soil mix is perlite and pummice excpet for that small container with the yellow JBP and a couple other containers where I used perlite and coco. Confusingly enough, my largest JBP is in the perlite coco mix but the yellow batch is also but very vigorous.
The rain water is 80 something degrees so I was kind of worried about loss of O2 so I used a fish tank bubbler a couple of times with my 4 gallon mix but not regularly to keep the 55 storage container aerobic. Not sure if this is an issue. However, I will look into the RO filter as that might be helpful for drinking too.
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
Thanks for the reply and additional advice. I forgot to mention that I am using rain water from my downspout barrell for nutrients 1x week and city supplied tap water for the foliar (since you recommended not using rain water due to pathogens).
I did not know that about the phosphorus. However, I am using the Microbe Hydro Vitamins and Amino Acids which contains myco.
The soil mix is perlite and pummice excpet for that small container with the yellow JBP and a couple other containers where I used perlite and coco. Confusingly enough, my largest JBP is in the perlite coco mix but the yellow batch is also but very vigorous.
The rain water is 80 something degrees so I was kind of worried about loss of O2 so I used a fish tank bubbler a couple of times with my 4 gallon mix but not regularly to keep the 55 storage container aerobic. Not sure if this is an issue. However, I will look into the RO filter as that might be helpful for drinking too.
Yes bubble the water for sure………… and remember since you’re pouring over cakes you wanna add humic acid to that pure water trust me it’ll draw the minerals right out of the root it is so pure……. Black humic acid powder also change your perlite an attractive dark brown color almost looks like Okadama!!!!

Black humic acid powder is full of the natural minerals that pure water needs.

your folier feeds will appreciate a cheap RO filter too because there is some unnecessary mineral drying on them leaves it may be a bit clogging ,but of course it works for now👍
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
THE DUTCH BIO-FUNGICIDE TECHNIQUE:::Increase calcium uptake 1000x!!!!
(Japanese Larch ).



The amino acids I add always have a physical effect on the plants by means of actually showing the calcium pectate buildup in the stems, leaves etc…..or actually showing up differantly in differant species of trees.

Pines and many deciduous end up with very shiny leaves…….calcium pectate in the leaf cells instead of the usual water.( makes extremely tough against various molds namely…….insects too)!

The Larch show this effect in the first season stems .Can definately see the tell tale sheen of the durability of a calcium pectate gloss.
So so cool……I am monitering the pines and have not used a fungicide as of yet.

This Larch gets an early start in the co2 fertilized grow environment….a good two mnth start!!!

These larch will be cool I am envisioning one inch trunks in these 3 inch blocks in stonewool eventually….. I start a nice flat every season early in the CO2 I have some now in the CO2 started a month ago…..61097F1D-33FB-4821-8891-BA299EB52C83.jpeg0BAED41F-4BF9-4789-AA4A-E744EC143CF0.jpegAA5D7131-EFB3-475F-B03A-A304A05DB99E.jpeg877C7E11-9097-4A7C-9E39-A83F65B5A6F4.jpeg69115E58-212B-4F6E-AD68-316F8A433987.jpeg622EEE2D-3588-422C-915D-363AB1EA4D9F.jpegD03FEFDA-7953-43ED-809A-E3E6D3DFA9F8.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
SEASON FOR PINES HAS BEGUN

Next two weeks is freezing or above at nightime for the most part……..so I figured sunshine for the JBP……40’s—50’s F during daylight.

These are nice color….frozen quite deeply a few times during Winter…..around 20f.

Mostly about 27f…..shade the whole Winter,but at least had indirect light….helps them alot.

I will just hand water till I set up the table.BFA39B63-1F8C-4290-AD16-B308BB1AB9C3.jpeg401A9659-5EBA-4A25-814F-2EDA00856644.jpegB2346563-E6BA-4F14-AFD3-EDF0474066BC.jpeg774E52A8-7093-44D0-BE3C-E7BFD784ADBF.jpeg09833AE5-AC51-40DF-9C2C-B71805F305F9.jpeg767CE098-0713-48A4-B8C3-A6FE8BCD15B1.jpeg
 

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,358
Reaction score
8,281
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
Excited to evaluate some media and potting techniques on this Siberian Elm.

So this Siberian Elm is only air-layered 1 year from a 2 mnth old seedling.
Awesome development on this tree!
3 mnth indoor head start in the co2 fertilization…..every season is the plan.

I used Rootpouch brand ( entrapment type) self pruning fabric.I really enjoy the idea and simplicity of it all.Should keep it very even growing and will not raise out of the pot or anything.

The fabric is definitely a well tested product, by yours truly ,on pine trees….. check the development of the JBP on the last photo!
Grown in a 1 pint Rootpouch brand pot w/ 1-2 year weave.
D659C422-AB1D-4B09-A648-24AEAE14C2C1.jpeg5444BF0F-C253-48B7-909E-A6A8AA34F381.jpegD7441DD5-7BE5-4654-BF34-EEF496FAB1FC.jpegAA38A996-84CF-4CE2-85B8-EDC418796B07.jpeg9D817B10-5651-4DD5-81EA-4127238201D9.jpegDE89FD54-CAEE-47BC-A96E-C76F4F780DA8.jpegA222AC07-C4F4-44D5-AEA4-171013CD734C.jpegB45D2101-D015-4F01-8A64-309C5A744E05.jpeg0549D8BD-9F9F-444A-8809-742BCB8AF5E6.jpeg68E188D8-00CC-45BF-ACF4-FCBB59E02FA3.jpegC64007F3-0CA8-4CC8-AF03-AD7FB70ADA48.jpeg
 

nuttiest

Omono
Messages
1,059
Reaction score
855
Location
fl
USDA Zone
10
So the air layer was to see if it would force strong nebari? Any bottom-reduced produce good lateral roots?
I take it the last photo is your next trial, hee hee. :)
 
Top Bottom