Oyster shells ok?

[Deleted member 32750]

I bought a pallet last year. If you buy bulk he will cut you a deal on price.

This is very helpful info. How many bags come on a pallet? I recently bought 4 bags of Aoki blend soil from him so i may explore this option in the future.

 

[waydeo]

I say search local for alternatives and use napa oil dry until you can find something better. I love pumice ,but its hard to come by in cheap quantities in northwest georgia. I reserve it for show pots and use napa oil dry ,pine bark fines and chicken granite for pre- bonsai and seedling pots . Still trying to find a good draining cheap mix . One day I'll have a covered potting shed with room for large quantities of the good stuff. Says he who dreams alot. Lol.

 

[bbk]

I would change this quote to "why people have to consider different substrates".

There is a big difference between what is "best" and what you need to go with due to cost / availability. As soon as you start substituting soil components I think it is only logical to assume you will start substituting soil results, depending on how close your substitution is.

Without over complicated the nuance even further I’d agree with that.

In line with that thinking, I’d suggest that most of the time “second best” is good enough. But here we’ll all make our own judgments on that.

 

[bbk]

Gotta say, although this thread is pretty disjointed, the above statement is true.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Still, there are bad choices, oyster shell being one of them based upon prior results and obvious flaws.

I thought that we answered that waaaaaay back!!!!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I've used permatill (stalite) before. As you note, that is too coarse for bonsai soil. It could be a terrific soil ingredient if you can get a smaller diameter particle.

You can get washed and graded screened to CA# 9 in 40lb 0.75 cubic foot bags, 50 bags per pallet at Wadesboro, NC. $7.50 per bag plus tax if you pick up ($375 per pallet plus tax retail - lower if you have a wholesale account). Bulk load pickup is at Gold Hill, NC for $92 per ton... if you have a truck. Note they can't do pickups there, so you need to rent/know someone with a dump truck, or pay for freight.

This is their smallest grade above coarse sand (and smaller than Permatil).

 

[Paradox]

Yes, local ingredients are valuable, BUT using them simply because they're local and cheap can be shortsighted.

Yup. Been there, done that.
Tried doing the cheap local soil alternatives which for me was sand and pea gravel.
It was God awful heavy, stayed wetter than I expected, compacted and did not promote root growth. Did that for about 3 years then tried lava and pumice mixed and never looked back.

I would think there would be a west coast source of pumice that would be more affordable to get to Alaska?

 

[penumbra]

I thought that we answered that waaaaaay back!!!!

This was posted waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.

 

[ShadyStump]

I live in the Colorado Rockies, where you can find just about every kind of rock imaginable. Good luck buying pumice or lava, though. At least lava that isn't the size of your fist. Heck, the mountains surrounding my town produced more coal than WV at one point, and we used to ship clay across the world a century ago, but you couldn't find anything more than granite if your life depended on it.
I can get a 40lb bag of perlite, though.

Economics makes no sense sometimes.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

You can get washed and graded screened to CA# 9 in 40lb 0.75 cubic foot bags, 50 bags per pallet at Wadesboro, NC. $7.50 per bag plus tax if you pick up ($375 per pallet plus tax retail - lower if you have a wholesale account). Bulk load pickup is at Gold Hill, NC for $92 per ton... if you have a truck. Note they can't do pickups there, so you need to rent/know someone with a dump truck, or pay for freight.

This is their smallest grade above coarse sand (and smaller than Permatil).

And the good thing is the permatil plant is spitting distance from Kannapolis and the Winter Silhouette venue. BTW I use the pre-bagged stuff sold locally for about $16. I sift out the big stuff and either dump it in the garden or crush it with a sledge and sift it again. Somewhere I have the contact info for the lady that handles the special orders for local pickup—let me search.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Found her, Debra Stringer is her name assuming she is still there as it was 2018 last time I talked to her. Here is the info:

If you and your bonsai friends want to arrange a road trip to our lab and pick up several bags at one time, then it is only $12.00 per bag plus sales tax. Our lab is at 16815 Old Beatty Ford Rd, Gold Hill NC. Hours are 7:30 to 3:30 Mon-Fri. We would need to prearrange the sale in order to have the material ready for you. Phone number is (877) 737-6284.

 

[19Mateo83]

I was talking to Larry Morton at Bella bonsai in mint hill a few weeks ago, if memory serves me correctly, he said they stopped selling individual bags at gold hill, you have to buy a pallet. Or a dump truck load. I’m not 100% on this information but he would be the one to know. He had a couple pallets of it at his place. Also another good stop while visiting kannapolis.
Larry Morton
Bella Bonsai Nursery
9625 Surface Hill Rd.
Mint Hill, NC 28227
Call or text 704-545-9058

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Do you ever have the feeling people don't read your posts before they respond to them?

 

[bbk]

Do you ever have the feeling people don't read your posts before they respond to them?

Yea

 

[San Franpsycho]

The particles also pack due to the fact they are flat rather than round. I used hundreds upon hundreds of pounds of this in marine aquarium systems many years ago. It kept the pH buffered at about 8.3.

We did this too. perfect for African Cichlids from the Great Rift Lakes - brackish water.

 

[penumbra]

We did this too. perfect for African Cichlids from the Great Rift Lakes - brackish water.

Interesting story about that. In 1970-72 I worked for a aquarium fish wholesaler at the beginning of the African Cichlid craze. My only job was taking care of the hundreds of tanks and pools of fish. I was actually there when some of these fish were seen for the first time in this country. No one had imagined that there were fresh water fish that rivaled salt water fish for color. I am sorry to say I cannot remember the ichthyologist's name that accompanied these early importations. I was young and only keeping fish and getting high was of importance to me. It was pretty danged exciting.
The Rift Valley Lakes were once salt water millions of years ago, with rising mountains that cut them off from the ocean. Today they have about the highest alkalinity of any lakes that can support fish life. Although they do not have enough salt in them to be classed as brackish, there is some salt. But most of the worlds water contains some amount of dissolved salts. Many of the fish of the Great Rift Valley can tolerate salt up to the level of brackish quite well.
I apologize for being so off topic but sometimes you just have to do it.

 

[Colorado]

I live in the Colorado Rockies, where you can find just about every kind of rock imaginable. Good luck buying pumice or lava, though. At least lava that isn't the size of your fist. Heck, the mountains surrounding my town produced more coal than WV at one point, and we used to ship clay across the world a century ago, but you couldn't find anything more than granite if your life depended on it.
I can get a 40lb bag of perlite, though.

Economics makes no sense sometimes.

Not so fast, Shady! There are a number of pumice mines down in New Mexico, just north of Albuquerque. I know that practitioners from our area go down there for pickup loads of pumice and, I think also lava.

 

[ShadyStump]

Not so fast, Shady! There are a number of pumice mines down in New Mexico, just north of Albuquerque. I know that practitioners from our area go down there for pickup loads of pumice and, I think also lava.

I've looked into it actually. Just not viable for me right now.
My complaint is just that, with all the mines and quarries, it seems like getting it more locally would be easier. Just a few yards of it would last me a couple years, but it seems counter productive to borrow a truck and spend more on gas to go get it than I would on the aggregate itself.
I'll be calling a few more local landscaping suppliers here soon, though, and maybe they'll have a connection. If I come across something, I'll make it known.

 

[19Mateo83]

I bought a pallet last year. If you buy bulk he will cut you a deal on price.

Also, I have been talking with Statesville Brick about brick fines (at their manufacturing facility), and Stalite about a smaller piece size on their expanded shale. I just have to drive out to both locations and pick up samples for testing. The Stalite product is going to be a smaller piece size than what they sell at retail as "Vole Bloc" or "Permatil". For the Stalite I need to buy in pallet quantities, but the price is not too prohibitive if I pick up at their facility.

I just found permatill (expanded shale) in bulk at Atlantic landscape supply on hwy 16 heading towards mount holly. $95 a cubic yard, $55 a 1/2 cubic yard. Once sifted it’s about 50%, 1/8”+ particles.

 

[bonsaichile]

At least you can reuse the pumice you have when something dies, right? I wonder if it could be boiled. I would do that for a dollar a pound because that's what it is here.

Dont boil it, bake it in a kitchen oven