Parviflora Cones

[Frozentreehugger]

Looking for cone maturity advice . Cones are Pinus Parviflora Glauca landscape tree . Research says the large size is the norm for this cultivar . . Due to the rarity of JWP and or seeds especially here . I’m looking for advice info on when to collect the cones . Extracting and sowing I have no problem with . Looking for what indicators to look for to for cone and or seed maturity. Tree only had 3 accessible cones . So want to collect at best time maturity level . Obviously from the colour they are still young , only info I can find is they will last 3 to five years on the tree when mature . Appreciate any advice from someone with practical experience . Collecting these

 

[0soyoung]

The cone will be brown and the scales separate when ripe.
The first few seeds may just fall out, but many will be lodged so that you have to 'dig' them out.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

The cone will be brown and the scales separate when ripe.
The first few seeds may just fall out, but many will be lodged so that you have to 'dig' them out.

Thanks so you recommend waiting until the scales actually start to open . I have dried to open other pine cones like Scot’s . With mature seeds inside . But makes sense to be safe . Are you aware of a time line from the state there in now . . Next year maybe or still several years to brown up and open

 

[0soyoung]

I just gathered some in the course of the last month or so. A couple of the forest group of seeds already germinated (I just rolled them into a pot).

I'm guessing that yours won't be ready until about this time next year.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I just gathered some in the course of the last month or so. A couple of the forest group of seeds already germinated (I just rolled them into a pot).

I'm guessing that yours won't be ready until about this time next year.

Thanks always found it odd . There is not more used in landscaping . Around here . Ottawa Ontario zone 4 seems perfect for JWP . Nations capital lots of expensive homes and embassies with elaborate gardens . . Even the dwarf conifer specialist nursery I go to . Told me they had some grafted ones once . Sold fast but could not take the cold . Customers un happy . My understanding is they are often grafted to JBP . But that is mainly to make them more heat tolerant . For warmer climates

 

[0soyoung]

Scots (p. sylvestris) is also frequently used by Oregon/Washington growers.

I'm pretty sure Iseli uses sylvestris, for example. There are at least a few landscape garden centers in Canada that import and sell Iseli stuff.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Scots (p. sylvestris) is also frequently used by Oregon/Washington growers.

I'm pretty sure Iseli uses sylvestris, for example. There are at least a few landscape garden centers in Canada that import and sell Iseli stuff.

The nursery I was referring to sells iseli stuff . Very happy with anything I got from them always healthy . Scot’s I can get . Was referring specifically to JWP as hard to get . Have had several talks with nursery owner about the red tape getting worse to import live trees . And also the possibility of pre ordering from iseli thru them with there annual order . Covid really put the squeeze on that . They struggled to get 30 to 50 percent of there normal stock . But there honest great people mom and pop business unlike others there prices stayed reasonable . I posted somewhere here in spring . Nursery at edge of city selling Japanese maples 4 gallon pot 2 to 3 feet high ugly graft trees 600 to 850 $ depending on cultivar . That’s zone 5 trees in zone 4

 

[0soyoung]

I was talking root stock for varieties of parviflora (as opposed to using thunbergii).

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Scots (p. sylvestris) is also frequently used by Oregon/Washington growers.

I'm pretty sure Iseli uses sylvestris, for example. There are at least a few landscape garden centers in Canada that import and sell Iseli stuff.

The nursery I was referring to sells iseli stuff . Very happy with anything I got from them always healthy . Scot’s I can get . Was referring specifically to JWP as hard to get . Have had several talks with nursery owner about the red tape getting worse to import live trees . And also the possibility of pre ordering from iseli thru them with there annual order . Covid really put the squeeze on that . They struggled to get 30 to 50 percent of there normal stock . But there honest great people mom and pop business unlike others there prices stayed reasonable . I posted somewhere here in spring . Nursery at edge of city selling Japanese maples 4 gallon pot 2 to 3 feet high ugly graft trees 600 to 850 $ depending on cultivar . That’s zone 5 trees in zone 4

I was talking root stock for varieties of parviflora (as opposed to using thunbergii).

ok sorry my mistake . I’ve heard of eastern white pine strobus to make it more vigorous. Also but I’m mainly interested in non grafted tree after all . They should do fine in this zone . But the desire for faster growth is understandable

 

[Shibui]

Pine cones are ripe when thee outside color turns brown. have little direct experience with white pine but happened to be at a botanic garden just as white pine cones were opening so collected seed there. Pretty sure that would have been Easter (fall down here) so those cones you have spotted will probably take another couple of months in your area.
Most pine cones take 18 months from pollination (usually spring) through to maturity (late summer/fall) the year after. Cone opening seems to be influenced by temp and humidity so cones seem to open on a dry day. In my experience most of the good seed is shed the day the cones first open.
Cones will usually close up again if there's moisture - high humidity or rain which can be a trap for the newbie seed collector. The cones look unopened but when they are dried and open there's little seed left. There may be some harder to extract seed still held in the cones but my experience is much of that seed will not be viable.
Best to pick a little earlier than full maturity instead of waiting until after the cones have opened. Fortunately not all cones on a tree will open on the same day. There's usually a few that open a week or so before most on the tree and also a few that stay closed for another few weeks.
Spent cones will often stay on the trees for a few years, opening and closing repeatedly in response to moisture levels.

 

[Potawatomi13]

My understanding is they are often grafted to JBP . But that is mainly to make them more heat tolerant . For warmer climates

IF grafted on JBP rootstock roots may have frozen. Since all died this seems likely. Cones when dry/brown can be collected before opening. Or if possible can put plastic bag around cone when time approaches for opening say about this time (August).

 

[0soyoung]

Most pine cones take 18 months from pollination (usually spring) through to maturity (late summer/fall) the year after.

JBP and JWP definitely take another year.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Pine cones are ripe when thee outside color turns brown. have little direct experience with white pine but happened to be at a botanic garden just as white pine cones were opening so collected seed there. Pretty sure that would have been Easter (fall down here) so those cones you have spotted will probably take another couple of months in your area.
Most pine cones take 18 months from pollination (usually spring) through to maturity (late summer/fall) the year after. Cone opening seems to be influenced by temp and humidity so cones seem to open on a dry day. In my experience most of the good seed is shed the day the cones first open.
Cones will usually close up again if there's moisture - high humidity or rain which can be a trap for the newbie seed collector. The cones look unopened but when they are dried and open there's little seed left. There may be some harder to extract seed still held in the cones but my experience is much of that seed will not be viable.
Best to pick a little earlier than full maturity instead of waiting until after the cones have opened. Fortunately not all cones on a tree will open on the same day. There's usually a few that open a week or so before most on the tree and also a few that stay closed for another few weeks.
Spent cones will often stay on the trees for a few years, opening and closing repeatedly in response to moisture levels.

Thanks what I have done in the past with other pines . Is very similar I prefer to pick the cones before they open . Generally in the fall . I have found placed in a paper bag with the top open . The dry air behind the refrigerator. Or placed near the wood burning stove I use as auxiliary heat in winter . Does a great job of opening them . You just shake the bag

 

[Shibui]

JBP and JWP definitely take another year.

Not down here. I guess it is possible that maturity may take longer in cold places but definitely 18 months where I live.
I've been growing and collecting JBP seed and JRP seed for quite a few years and have kept track of cones from hand pollination in spring through to maturity. Last autumn's harvest was around 100 JBP cones which are currently drying in mesh bags beside the wood heater.
Last spring cones are still quite small on the trees but will swell quickly come summer and open late summer or early autumn.

Generally in the fall . I have found placed in a paper bag with the top open . The dry air behind the refrigerator. Or placed near the wood burning stove I use as auxiliary heat in winter . Does a great job of opening them . You just shake the bag

My approach also as mentioned above.
Down here parrots and cockatoos love pine seeds so I tie mesh bags over all the developing cones to keep the birds off while they ripen. Also saves any seed from any cones that open early. The same bags are used to dry cones after harvest.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Not down here. I guess it is possible that maturity may take longer in cold places but definitely 18 months where I live.
I've been growing and collecting JBP seed and JRP seed for quite a few years and have kept track of cones from hand pollination in spring through to maturity. Last autumn's harvest was around 100 JBP cones which are currently drying in mesh bags beside the wood heater.
Last spring cones are still quite small on the trees but will swell quickly come summer and open late summer or early autumn.


My approach also as mentioned above.
Down here parrots and cockatoos love pine seeds so I tie mesh bags over all the developing cones to keep the birds off while they ripen. Also saves any seed from any cones that open early. The same bags are used to dry cones after harvest.

Smart idea with the bags the only pine cone I have not solved is Jack Pine Pinus Bsnksaina It is a native here it’s extreme cold tolerance and ability to grow in poor soils . Leads to the fact there should be amazing Yamadori but I have looked a lot and failed . Most likely need to go farther north . There is no mountain terrain around here . Biggest dwarfing factors I have access to are cold and harsh winters zone 4 and the Canadian Shield terrain which is landscape with a lot of large rock formations sticking out of the earth creating hills and small rock picket growing conditions . The main attraction of Jack pine. To bonsai is the very short under 3./4 of a inch needles the cone difficulty is they open randomly last a long time or need forest fire heat have not tried heat but drying don’t work

 

[Shibui]

The main attraction of Jack pine. To bonsai is the very short under 3./4 of a inch needles the cone difficulty is they open randomly last a long time or need forest fire heat have not tried heat but drying don’t work

I've read that there are a number of pine species that are fire dependant. I think it was mentioned that the cone scales are glued together with resin so can't open without a fire to melt the glue.
Try using a blowtorch or roasting cones on the BBQ. Don't worry about burning the seeds. If they can survive a forest fire they can survive your BBQ. Just toast the cones until the outside chars a bit then take off and allow to dry. The seed are well protected from the heat by the layers of woody scales so you really have to roast them for a long time to hurt the seeds. I also seem to remember something about heat treatment in the oven to open cones but can't remember temps so you'll need to search online for answers.
We treat many Banksia cones the same way to extract seed. The first time is frightening but you can soon get good at judging how much charring is enough. With banksia I cook until I hear the follicles pop and can see them start to open a tiny bit. I'd guess your Jack pine cones will be similar.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I've read that there are a number of pine species that are fire dependant. I think it was mentioned that the cone scales are glued together with resin so can't open without a fire to melt the glue.
Try using a blowtorch or roasting cones on the BBQ. Don't worry about burning the seeds. If they can survive a forest fire they can survive your BBQ. Just toast the cones until the outside chars a bit then take off and allow to dry. The seed are well protected from the heat by the layers of woody scales so you really have to roast them for a long time to hurt the seeds. I also seem to remember something about heat treatment in the oven to open cones but can't remember temps so you'll need to search online for answers.
We treat many Banksia cones the same way to extract seed. The first time is frightening but you can soon get good at judging how much charring is enough. With banksia I cook until I hear the follicles pop and can see them start to open a tiny bit. I'd guess your Jack pine cones will be similar.

Thanks bro . Can’t wait to see the look on wife’s face . You know when she looks like I’m one notch crazier . When I start bbq pine cones to grow trees

 

[Srt8madness]

Thanks bro . Can’t wait to see the look on wife’s face . You know when she looks like I’m one notch crazier . When I start bbq pine cones to grow trees

Hey don't worry, back when LEDs were becoming popular and cheaper, we were baking headlights in the oven to melt the glue to put the Halos inside. Pine cones are practically food compared to that.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Quick update will have to wait longer for the . White pine cones . Someone collected them late in the fall . They where still green . So out of luck . There is much less mature cones o. The tree . So maybe in the future

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

To open jack pine cones, banksiana, I just put a few in an old frying pan. Low heat, it doesn't take long, and scales will start to lift and separate.

Pinus parviflora is rarely to almost never raised from seed for the landscape nursery trade because majority of seedling have yellowish needles, often twisted, both are negative traits for landscape and bonsai trees. The JWP with beautiful blue foliage is rare from seed.

True, sometimes one gets lucky, and if the only JWP in the nursery to pollinate the cones to make seed have good blue foliage, the chances of blue foliage go up some. But most reports I've heard from people raising batches of JWP from seed, have been frustrated that the number of good colored JWP seedlings is rather low. Yellowish needles are usually viewed as undesirable, unless the yellow is bold enough to not get the "ish" qualifier.

I wait to harvest pine cones until they begin to change color from green to brown. Then pick them, and a paper bag is great because it breathes. I believe 18 months is right for most pine species.