Permission to Collect in California

tnaz71

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My sister lives in Big Bear sort of on the outskirts. Just outside of her property is state land and it's loaded with beautiful short, old ponderosa's. Who would I contact for permission to collect? I called the local forest ranger & they basically told me where to go.. Do they even issue permits out here? I have tried to find out online & see nothing that talks about such a permit.

I know it's not the correct time of year was going to plan on getting them this fall or next spring just wanted to figured out now what needed to be done & do it the correct way.

Thanks
 
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jk_lewis

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Find out which government agency owns the land. Contact them. It could be local, state, or federal and any one of dozens of agencies in any of them.

Pernits are tough to get in some areas, but if you are caught without one . . . .
 

mrchips1952

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Tree Permits

I can only speak for Colorado which sells permits ($10.00 per tree) from the US Forest Service Office which allows collecting in certain areas of the National Forest. Our collecting season is April 15 - May 31st. I came home with nine very nice Ponderosa's this year.
 

tnaz71

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Find out which government agency owns the land. Contact them. It could be local, state, or federal and any one of dozens of agencies in any of them.

Pernits are tough to get in some areas, but if you are caught without one . . . .

Yeah I have a email in to the BLM here & figured I would just contact the local ranger station & the lady basically told me off for even thinking about doing it. I wouldn't ever do it without permission & understand totally if they don't even allow it. I just figured these trees in this area are growing in bad spots and are stunted. Some look extremely old and haven't had a easy life so they wont ever be the tall giants they were intended to be.

I need to find a local bonsai club but sadly my hours vary so much I doubt I would ever be able to attend :(

If anyone that is local in CA or has collected "legally" here has any info or a contact # or info for me to pursure I would be greatly indebt.

Till then I will just admire them from afar.

Thanks
 

Bill S

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Actually I would go back to the jerk in a box and ask for a supervisor. When you get that person, describe in detail what you are trying to do, and ask for a permit that is given in many places. It could be they will not for where you are at, but don;t let some whiz bang ruin your day because she has a knot in her gotchies. If you get somewhere with the supervisor, kindly stop by her desk and educate her as well.
 

Mojosan

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The Forest Service leaves the decision of whether or not to issue permits up to the local Forester in charge of each specific USFS Office. So, if the opinion of the local Forest Supervisor is that issuing such permits is not prudent, end of story.
 

Vance Wood

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Yeah I have a email in to the BLM here & figured I would just contact the local ranger station & the lady basically told me off for even thinking about doing it. I wouldn't ever do it without permission & understand totally if they don't even allow it. I just figured these trees in this area are growing in bad spots and are stunted. Some look extremely old and haven't had a easy life so they wont ever be the tall giants they were intended to be.

I need to find a local bonsai club but sadly my hours vary so much I doubt I would ever be able to attend :(

If anyone that is local in CA or has collected "legally" here has any info or a contact # or info for me to pursure I would be greatly indebt.

Till then I will just admire them from afar.

Thanks
I hate to say it because all, or most of my early bonsai, were collected from Northern California but; this is what happens when you let the Greenies take over the state. I have been saying this for years on this site and several others, get used to alternate sources for material to do bonsai because a day is coming when you will not be allowed to collect, even trees that the same forest service people will go out and burn up in a controlled burn. Like when they set Yellow Stone on fire a number of years ago. Go figure? I have a saying or axiom if you like: Those who profess to save a thing often are responsible for creating the kind of damage that destroys it.
 

tnaz71

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Thanks guys for the info thus far! I understand that it is going to be a difficult adventure unless you know someone who happens to have land with trees on it or knows someone that knows someone with such land. California is a tough state to do much of anything & I refuse to risk the consequences of just going out and taking something that doesn't belong to me without permission. I called another ranger station & they told me in a nicer manner that it was just not possible to collect anything.

The only permit application that I have found was http://www.dfg.ca.gov/habcon/plant/docs/coll_perm_app.pdf

It does seem odd that a construction outfit can go in and bulldoze 100-400+ year old junipers and not think twice but if someone said "hey let me try and rescue some of them before they become firewood" they would have to jump through hoops. I will just keep on trying till all my resources are exhausted.

Thanks again
 
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Vance Wood

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Thanks guys for the info thus far! I understand that it is going to be a difficult adventure unless you know someone who happens to have land with trees on it or knows someone that knows someone with such land. California is a tough state to do much of anything & I refuse to risk the consequences of just going out and taking something that doesn't belong to me without permission. I called another ranger station & they told me in a nicer manner that it was just not possible to collect anything.

The only permit application that I have found was http://www.dfg.ca.gov/habcon/plant/docs/coll_perm_app.pdf

It does seem odd that a construction outfit can go in and bulldoze 100-400+ year old junipers and not think twice but if someone said "hey let me try and rescue some of them before they become firewood" they would have to jump through hoops. I will just keep on trying till all my resources are exhausted.

Thanks again

That should tell you and others that all of this is greenie crap is not really about saving the environment but limiting your freedom and ability to engage in an activity someone else my find too much for you to be allowed to continue in it. As a side bar, if you think me paranoid; recently the City of San Francisco out lawed the practice of circumcision in its hospitals and synagogues. Where do you think this one is going to wind up?
 

Bill S

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See if you can get a permit to bulldoze, just use the Tonka, if they come thru.
 

maninbox

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Caltrans has recently finished a new bridge in the Big Bear area to replace the old one which ran over the dam. To do this, large sections of rocky sloping terrain were blasted or bulldozed away to make room for the bridge abutments and road work. There were many native trees removed that has struggled for years to establish themselves in the rocks surviving the cold, snowy winters and decomposed granite soils. There were many stunted and contorted small native trees such as white pine, lodgepole pine, Jeffrey pine and silver pine. It was a real shame that none could be saved but all of the land around the dam is part of the San Bernardino National Forest. I have a cabin right there but I couldn't collect anything because I do not own the land. Now that the new bridge is finished, a program of reforestation has begun. The steep, rocky slopes are now dotted with seedling starts protected by white plastic sleeves. Better than nothing but it's going to be a while before any recovery takes place. The new bridge was needed and it came out very nice. I suppose thats progress.
 
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National forest is different... try an actual USFS site... they'll even sell you maps to show you exactly where you can go. What you get is called a transplant permit. Has to be under 4 feet and tagged after you collect it.
 

PaulH

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Each of the National Forests (and there are a bunch in CA) are run independently and each has its own policy regarding forest products sales, primarily timber sales. There is usually one person at the main office for each National Forest who makes permitting decisions. Once you find out who that person is its an easy yes or no answer. BLM works pretty much the same way. Each district has a person who calls the shots. When I've gotten permits from the National Forest I have to pay in advance for the trees I plan to collect ($7 a tree last year).
 

edprocoat

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I have never tried to collect a tree. In Ohio I am sure it would be tough to get permission though, there is a state park that has a run-off area where there is a bypass for the dam in case of flooding. The area is the end of the old creek and a known place to pick up rocks with trilobyte fossils in them, the standard saying is you are allowed to take anything that is hand size, nothing larger. I wanted to get one of the larger flat pieces, about 12 inches long to put a plant on, they are loose and fall from the bank everytime it rains. Not wanting any problem I went to the park rangers office and asked them, they head guy said they do not allow any removal of rocks at all, so I told them what I had heard and seen. He said thats a common misconception and if they see you they will make you replace the rock, and now that he told me he would have to prosecute me if I tried to remove any rocks !

ed
 

Eric Schrader

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Here's some solid information for you: Inyo National Forest issues permits (last I checked anyway) for large areas, not just for some silly little area on some particular road. Try contacting this guy:

Scott Kusumoto
Inyo Interagency Veg Mgt Team
Mammoth Office
phone: 760.924.5522
fax: 760.924.5537
email: skusumoto@fs.fed.us

You can get a permit from the Tahoe National Forest from the office in Nevada City but you have to go in person to get it and you will be confined to within 100 feet of a particular forest service road as that is the only area where the ranger has "studied the impact."

In SoCal I only know that Harry Hirao's club takes people to a private ranch for collecting CA junipers, anyone can join the club I believe. I know people go collecting elsewhere but I'm not sure if they're doing it legally or not.

Scott Chad (who owns a nursery near Placerville, CA) takes people in groups to Inyo, but you can go yourself if you get your own permit.

About 8-9 years ago I contacted almost every other national forest office in the state and was turned down for a permit. Never checked Arizona forests though which in some cases are closer. The northern part of the state might have some nice spots. I've been hiking in various spots in southern nevada and found really nice junipers but never pursued collecting any of them.

Good luck.
 

Boerboel313

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I feel the pain. I just reached out the Kasumoto Bonsai Club in the Bay Area. I live down in SOCAL and would like to transplant a few more trees. I recently dug a tree from private land in Big Bear, but would like to venture out to other areas in the region.
Good luck all.

Chris.
 

Mikecheck123

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What do you all think about collecting volunteers on off ramps? I see so many coast live oaks with two inch trunks growing like weeds there.
 

Vance Wood

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Better get permission; if you don't know about California you are about to.
 

MrWunderful

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Better get permission; if you don't know about California you are about to.

Its not that bad. Ive noticed most folks who dont live in CA tend to over-react about it.
Im happy they dont just let people go and rape public land though, requiring permission for collecting trees is a reasonable request.

Im sure many private land owners would let you have at it if you contacted them.

PS. Circumcision was never illegal in SF.
 

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