Peter Macasieb Elm

JonW

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Anyone seen this?

Peter Macasieb shows one of his shohin Chinese Elms - not a Hokkaido or Seiju - with tiny leaves. He mentions treating it with some sort of chemical (9:40 into the video).
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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High dose of these:

Will induce dwarf growth. Combine it with cytokinins for a maximum effect.

But a word of warning: stunting growth with chemicals is always an experiment and results will vary greatly. It's very possible that there is no way to return to regular growth after you use them. It's also very possible that growth continues as usual after some time.
 

JonW

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High dose of these:

Will induce dwarf growth. Combine it with cytokinins for a maximum effect.

But a word of warning: stunting growth with chemicals is always an experiment and results will vary greatly. It's very possible that there is no way to return to regular growth after you use them. It's also very possible that growth continues as usual after some time.
Thanks! Mostly posting out of curiosity - interesting. I always find myself interested in the small leaves of seiju or hokkaido, but the plant as a whole rarely looks refined or healthy. I got a cork bark from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks instead, and the leaves stay pretty small and natural looking with just typical clip-and-grow thus far.

One question - the site you linked to says that high levels of gibberellin results in long internodes. So is the chemical something that inhibits gibberellins, such as paclobutrazol?
 
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Wires_Guy_wires

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Thanks! Mostly posting out of curiosity - interesting. I always find myself interested in the small leaves of seiju or hokkaido, but the plant as a whole rarely looks refined or healthy. I got a cork bark from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks instead, and the leaves stay pretty small and natural looking with just typical clip-and-grow thus far.

One question - the site you linked to says that high levels of gibberellin results in long internodes. So is the chemical something that inhibits gibberellins, such as paclobutrazol?
If you over dose gibberillins, the plant refuses to respond to it any more, so it'll stop elongating and live its life as a tiny plant. That's an epigenetic feedback system, in a sense, it blocks the entire response cascade to the hormone in the future.
I accidentaly did it to some citrus. Their foliage has been 4mm at a maximum, while the untreated ones are roughly 24mm.

Just like how the treatment of the coca plant in Colombia with agent orange (containing 2,4-dichlorophenoxy acetic acid, an auxin) has rendered the surviving population insensitive to all auxins.
 

JonW

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If you over dose gibberillins, the plant refuses to respond to it any more, so it'll stop elongating and live its life as a tiny plant. That's an epigenetic feedback system, in a sense, it blocks the entire response cascade to the hormone in the future.
I accidentaly did it to some citrus. Their foliage has been 4mm at a maximum, while the untreated ones are roughly 24mm.

Just like how the treatment of the coca plant in Colombia with agent orange (containing 2,4-dichlorophenoxy acetic acid, an auxin) has rendered the surviving population insensitive to all auxins.
Interesting! So paclobutrazole would need to be applied consistently, while gibberellic acid would essentially turn off a switch that allows it to be produced in the future. Is there a certain dose that would trigger the epigenetic response, or does it vary by plant variety?
 

GGB

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I have never heard of any of this in my life. That's mind blowing.
Almost seems weird there isn't a renegade subculture of bonsai artists that use the juice, "shrinkers". The steroid users of the bonsai world.
half joking of course, especially if results are hard to control, but very cool to know
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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It varies a lot per variety and even within varieties.
Some plants don't respond to it at all, while some others respond to trace amounts.

When mixed with cytokinins, plants tend to produce a huge amount of adventitious branching, thus distributing the energy over a greater 'surface area' so to speak. This seems to increase the effects.
 

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