Picea Jezoensis/ Yezoensis/ Glenhii/ Sakhalin/ Jezo/ Yezo/ Ezo... SPRUCE CLARIFICATION?!

[Captain.Bonsai]

There’s blurry and inconsistent information on this rare cultivar, or multiple cultivars (?) of spruce... after reading through Brent’s descriptions and other articles regarding the import ban and rarity of this spruce, I’m still unclear as to which one is the true “Ezo”, which one is impossible to import, which one is most rare, so on and so forth... can anyone provide complete, final and definitive clarity?

Pictures and descriptions appreciated!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

According to Brent, true Ezo is jezoensis, and the Sachalin is ghlenni

Ezo has larger, looser foliage and is faster-growing. Sachalin has darker foliage, dark brown bark, and is exceptionally slow-growing. Higher altitude and colder climate, exceptionally rare. Here is a thread from not too long ago on the topic:
Post in thread 'What's your dream tree?'
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/whats-your-dream-tree.45161/post-772926

My Ezo Spruce thread is here, though my Ezo is gone, I do have several cuttings growing.


Adair has his ghlenni somewhere:


In Japan, they don’t seem to be as concerned for the specific cultivars, and often Ezo is generically used for both. Good luck, would be interested to see what your studies uncover as well.

 

[Djtommy]

In japan ezo matsu (ezo pine) seems to have the meaning of spruce so all spruces would be called ezo matsu.

for bonsai the best would be picea gleghni and this is the type usually referred too.

pice gleghni is aka ezo and the one that grows on the main island honshu is kuro ezo, which isn’t usually used or less desirable Anywayz. Bigger needles and stuff.

then you also have yatsubusa ezo which is one with very very short needles , I’ve only seen these sold as tiny trees almost mame size.

here also some info

Ezo Spruce Recovery Notes!

Several years ago i obtained an Ezo Spruce and carefully repotted over a couple of seasons to strengthen and prepare for styling. In 2017 i attempted to style and wire the Ezo for the first time. I reduced the top, wired up a small sprout to create a new apex, removed branches, thinned the...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Djtommy]

Within the picea gleghni there are also still differences, colour of needles, (green,yellowish,blueish) lenght, hardness(some are more spiky and others feel soft) .
so same as with every other type of tree you can say this tree has a good leaf type or not within the same species)

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

In japan ezo matsu (ezo pine) seems to have the meaning of spruce so all spruces would be called ezo matsu.

for bonsai the best would be picea gleghni and this is the type usually referred too.

pice gleghni is aka ezo and the one that grows on the main island honshu is kuro ezo, which isn’t usually used or less desirable Anywayz. Bigger needles and stuff.

then you also have yatsubusa ezo which is one with very very short needles , I’ve only seen these sold as tiny trees almost mame size.

here also some info

Ezo Spruce Recovery Notes!

Several years ago i obtained an Ezo Spruce and carefully repotted over a couple of seasons to strengthen and prepare for styling. In 2017 i attempted to style and wire the Ezo for the first time. I reduced the top, wired up a small sprout to create a new apex, removed branches, thinned the...

www.bonsainut.com

The tree in your link looks more like my jezoensis than ghlenni.

 

[Djtommy]

The tree in your link looks more like my jezoensis than ghlenni.

I think so too

 

[Potawatomi13]

Sheffields lists seed for jezoensis and glehnii but rarer is out of stock.

 

[Djtommy]

At the speed picea gleghni grows seed doesn’t seem all that interesting to me, unless the plan is for the next generation

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

At the speed picea gleghni grows seed doesn’t seem all that interesting to me, unless the plan is for the next generation

Yes, That's why I'm researching... I believe I found a source for "30-year-old" Glehnii(s) grown from cuttings. They're still quite small with unremarkable calipers, maybe 1/2" - 3/4". I believe they're glehnii, only based on some confusing research. Their foliage looks more compact than the jezoensis. These have a dense radial form of very small leaves. They were advertised as "Ezo," and propagated from a priceless specimen (on site) that was imported from Japan decades ago.

I'd being willing to stick one in a corner and watch it grown for the next 20 years (for my 7-month-old son) while I continue to chop up JMs... But confirming the cultivar may be important in choosing how much I'm willing to pay for one, or if it's worth the wait.

I think Brian cleared up my current confusion - based on the research he seems right: some folks call the sakhalin/ glehnii 'Ezo'. It seems the glehnii tend to get clumped in with jezoensis in the 'Ezo' category.

In Japan, they don’t seem to be as concerned for the specific cultivars, and often Ezo is generically used for both. Good luck, would be interested to see what your studies uncover as well.

I wonder if they're both as rare and slow growing. Are both banned from import?

The bonsai import company has a hefty price tag on a few that are labeled as yezo, but almost look more like glehnii. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the names are mostly semantics.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Yes, That's why I'm researching... I believe I found a source for "30-year-old" Glehnii(s) grown from cuttings. They're still quite small with unremarkable calipers, maybe 1/2" - 3/4". I believe they're glehnii, only based on some confusing research. Their foliage looks more compact than the jezoensis. These have a dense radial form of very small leaves. They were advertised as "Ezo," and propagated from a priceless specimen (on site) that was imported from Japan decades ago.

I'd being willing to stick one in a corner and watch it grown for the next 20 years (for my 7-month-old son) while I continue to chop up JMs... But confirming the cultivar may be important in choosing how much I'm willing to pay for one, or if it's worth the wait.

I think Brian cleared up my current confusion - based on the research he seems right: some folks call the sakhalin/ glehnii 'Ezo'. It seems the glehnii tend to get clumped in with jezoensis in the 'Ezo' category.


I wonder if they're both as rare and slow growing. Are both banned from import?

The bonsai import company has a hefty price tag on a few that are labeled as yezo, but almost look more like glehnii. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the names are mostly semantics.

View attachment 342343

The ones on BIC are likely ghlenni. It’s where Adair’s came from (not sure where he got it, but it’s still showing on the BIC website), and I saw some of them in quarantine at Brussel’s years ago; including Adair’s. They were beautiful trees, and definitely different than my Ezo. Small world, decent memory.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

I'm working on a rather comprehensive article on Ezo Spruce which will be released soon. But here is some of the text:

There are six spruce species native to the northern and high mountain regions of Japan. The “Ezo spruce,” Picea glehnii is the best and most commonly trained spruce for bonsai in Japan. The correct name for this spruce is Red ezo spruce, Aka ezo matsu in Japanese, because of the opening reddish new growth. In the bonsai community it is commonly called Ezo spruce. Ezo is the old name for Hokkaido. A common name for this species is Sakhalin spruce in the horticultural community.

Another similarly named spruce, the Yeddo spruce, Picea jezoensis, is commonly mistaken for the Ezo spruce, especially outside Japan. The correct name for this spruce is Black ezo spruce, Kuro ezo matsu, in Japanese because of the dark bark. This species is NOT trained for bonsai in Japan because of the large coarse needles which are about twice the size of the Red ezo spruce. I asked Mr. Kato, whose father was a pioneer and collector of Ezo spruce in northern Japan, about the difference between Red and Black ezo spruce and he told me, we never use Black ezo spruce because it is too large with coarse foliage. This species is often named Ezo spruce in the horticultural world, but is not the species trained for bonsai in Japan.

We are now assembling trees for our new Spring 2021 Seedling & Pre-Bonsai Catalog. One of the exciting new additions is Ezo spruce, which is extremely difficult to find in the United States.

The Ezo spruce, Picea glehnii, is the most famous and trained spruce for bonsai in Japan. A similar, but not used in Japan, is the Yeddo spruce, Picea jezoensis, which has large coarse foliage. A detailed article on the differences between Ezo and Yeddo spruce is forthcoming.

Our offering is for vigorous two year old container grown seedlings which are 8-12” tall. They are excellent for individual trees, forest and shohin bonsai and can also be grown to larger sizes as well. Although they will be listed in the new catalog they are now available in our Web Shop at: www.internationalbonsai.com/page/1449429

Bill

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

WOW! Case closed! Thanks William.

 

[Potawatomi13]

At the speed picea gleghni grows seed doesn’t seem all that interesting to me, unless the plan is for the next generation

Being in Japan are any hard to get? Over here seed could be the viable route to possession of rarity.

 

[Djtommy]

Being in Japan are any hard to get? Over here seed could be the viable route to possession of rarity.

good yamadori for sale are hard to come by but for the rest not so rare at all.
Not expensive either.

 

[clem]

Being in Japan are any hard to get? Over here seed could be the viable route to possession of rarity.

I bought this 8 YO forest from seed 30€ in a French nursery (picea glehnii) ->





A 80cm high picea jezoensis (not the glehnii) sold 12.800 yens (106 €) in Japan ->

 

[Djtommy]

I bought this 8 YO forest from seed 30€ in a French nursery (picea glehnii) ->
View attachment 342727




A 80cm high picea jezoensis (not the glehnii) sold 12.800 yens (106 €) in Japan ->

View attachment 342730

Is that taken in kanuma kaboku center? I seem to recognize that shade cloth Style.
I think 12800 is cheap though. Though I still wouldn’t buy it. Takes up too much space for What it has to offer for me. but definitely not expensive

 

[clem]

Is that taken in kanuma kaboku center? I seem to recognize that shade cloth Style.
I think 12800 is cheap though. Though I still wouldn’t buy it. Takes up too much space for What it has to offer for me. but definitely not expensive

I dunno where this pic was taken. I recieved it in mail from a friend living in Japan.
I agree with you with this tree : very cheap but i'm not inspired neither ..

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Wikipedia dive.
The 6 species of spruce native to Japan are:

Picea maximowiczii - another spruce named for a dead European, I'm sure the Japanese have a name for it.
Picea torano - tiger tail spruce - the english name.

Picea alcoquiana - Alcock's spruce - I'm sure the Japanese forester's have a Japanese name for it, but Wikipedia english does not list its name.

Picea glehnii - Sakhalin spruce, Aka ezo matsu, Glehn's spruce - the one we all want for bonsai

Picea jezoensis - black ezo spruce, Kuro ezo matsu

Picea koyamae - Koyama's spruce

I personally have Picea orientalis, and think this is a very nice, short needled spruce that should have some decent potential for bonsai. The very short needles are almost as short as the needles of Picea glehnii, with the advantage that Picea orientalis will tolerate hot summers. Because P. orientalis is from Turkey and the Caucus Mountains to the east of Turkey.

Ezo, Yezo, Jezo, are all orthographic variants of a place name, a district that at different points in time included the whole island of Hokkaidō. So the different common names are variations on where the spruce's come from. Of the 6 species of spruce native to Japan, 3 or 4 can be found on the island of Hokkaidō, so hence using a place name can create confusion, because several come from the same general island.

 

[Flowerhouse]

I'm working on a rather comprehensive article on Ezo Spruce which will be released soon. But here is some of the text:

There are six spruce species native to the northern and high mountain regions of Japan. The “Ezo spruce,” Picea glehnii is the best and most commonly trained spruce for bonsai in Japan. The correct name for this spruce is Red ezo spruce, Aka ezo matsu in Japanese, because of the opening reddish new growth. In the bonsai community it is commonly called Ezo spruce. Ezo is the old name for Hokkaido. A common name for this species is Sakhalin spruce in the horticultural community.

Another similarly named spruce, the Yeddo spruce, Picea jezoensis, is commonly mistaken for the Ezo spruce, especially outside Japan. The correct name for this spruce is Black ezo spruce, Kuro ezo matsu, in Japanese because of the dark bark. This species is NOT trained for bonsai in Japan because of the large coarse needles which are about twice the size of the Red ezo spruce. I asked Mr. Kato, whose father was a pioneer and collector of Ezo spruce in northern Japan, about the difference between Red and Black ezo spruce and he told me, we never use Black ezo spruce because it is too large with coarse foliage. This species is often named Ezo spruce in the horticultural world, but is not the species trained for bonsai in Japan.

We are now assembling trees for our new Spring 2021 Seedling & Pre-Bonsai Catalog. One of the exciting new additions is Ezo spruce, which is extremely difficult to find in the United States.

The Ezo spruce, Picea glehnii, is the most famous and trained spruce for bonsai in Japan. A similar, but not used in Japan, is the Yeddo spruce, Picea jezoensis, which has large coarse foliage. A detailed article on the differences between Ezo and Yeddo spruce is forthcoming.

Our offering is for vigorous two year old container grown seedlings which are 8-12” tall. They are excellent for individual trees, forest and shohin bonsai and can also be grown to larger sizes as well. Although they will be listed in the new catalog they are now available in our Web Shop at: www.internationalbonsai.com/page/1449429

Bill

Mine just arrived and they look wonderful! Super happy about Ezo spruce here. I've been wanting some, considered getting seeds but was discouraged by the description on the Sheffields site. When Bill posted the above information and link I jumped on it. It's dark here now, but I'll get pics and post them tomorrow.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

Wikipedia dive.
The 6 species of spruce native to Japan are:

Picea maximowiczii - another spruce named for a dead European, I'm sure the Japanese have a name for it.

Himebaramomi

Picea torano - tiger tail spruce - the english name.

Harimomi

Picea alcoquiana - Alcock's spruce - I'm sure the Japanese forester's have a Japanese name for it, but Wikipedia english does not list its name.

Matsuhada

Picea koyamae - Koyama's spruce

Yatugataketohi