Pine bark chips

[defra]

I am gathering info on different type of soils and i have little to no experience with the use of pine bark.

I have a few questions,
How long does it take before the chips are decomposed in the mix.

I guess roots cant penetrate the chips untill after a certain amount of time, i hope anyone knows after how long that would be?

What is the cation exchange capacity of pine bark ?

Any other pro's and cons of the use of pinebark chips?

Thnx in advance!

 

[sorce]

While I hate bark like reptibark, I find thinner pine bark chips, the type sold here as "soil conditioner" for cheap as hell, like $5 for a bag too big to carry...more acceptable.
My best year of growth ever was in DE/PBC/Biotone.

Dried out the DE a little faster, this could be good or bad.

Sorce

 

[Clicio]

Adding to your questions (sorry if hijacking your thread), how acidic really is pine bark?

 

[defra]

Adding to your questions (sorry if hijacking your thread), how acidic really is pine bark?

No hijacking but its aroumd 5

 

[defra]

While I hate bark like reptibark, I find thinner pine bark chips, the type sold here as "soil conditioner" for cheap as hell, like $5 for a bag too big to carry...more acceptable.
My best year of growth ever was in DE/PBC/Biotone.

Dried out the DE a little faster, this could be good or bad.

Sorce

These are the chips i have

 

[Anthony]

We asked these types of questions a few years ago, of older IBCers.

The response was -

[1] Turns to mush in about 3 to 4 months.

[2] Get it composted as you lose space with the decomposition.

So we left the idea alone [ we can get bark down here from the sawmills ]
and stayed with compost. Which actually decomposes and glues itself
into a larger shape and then still holds moisture / fertiliser in solution.

What became apparent was -- if using an inorganic that is durable to roots
and the passage of time, then oil seed meal starts of as fermented, composts
and replaces the missing organic along with dead roots.
Even moss on the surface will hold water and create organic material for
compost.
All able to hold water and fertiliser. Plus return the microbes / root balance.

It is then a matter of Sun Exposure / Humidity and how one waters.
Good Day
Anthony

* Read the other day that the earth averages out at around 8 % organic in the
first 3 feet of the soil, where most of the roots hang out.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I use it, and it works well. I don't know how long it holds up, but I have repotted several trees that have had three or four years between pottings and the bark is still intact. I don't remember the cantion exchange, but it is pretty high. It is good stuff.

 

[defra]

I use it, and it works well. I don't know how long it holds up, but I have repotted several trees that have had three or four years between pottings and the bark is still intact. I don't remember the cantion exchange, but it is pretty high. It is good stuff.

Thankyou ! Do you remember if the roots penetrate the chunks?
And what particle size do you use?

If i put your comment besides anthony's they are kinda the opposite.... makes me think about maybe the difference in what species of pine the bark comes from or the climate plays a big part in the composting process as well as probably the care taking is of influence too wich create such big difference in

@Anthony the space thats left behind by decomposing is it perhaps solvable by using small chips

 

[discusmike]

Never seen the roots penetrate n most broke into small particles by summers end

 

[wireme]

I’ve only used that kind of small thin pine bark a couple times but trees did well. Used the chunkier fir bark a lot more. 3-4 seasons later pretty much looks the same as when it went in but is softer and easy to crumble. Roots grow through and divide it’s a good thing. Any loss of volume due to decomposition is slow and also a good thing, roots fill the spaces.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Thankyou ! Do you remember if the roots penetrate the chunks?
And what particle size do you use?

If i put your comment besides anthony's they are kinda the opposite.... makes me think about maybe the difference in what species of pine the bark comes from or the climate plays a big part in the composting process as well as probably the care taking is of influence too wich create such big difference in

@Anthony the space thats left behind by decomposing is it perhaps solvable by using small chips

I use fir bark, 1/4 to 1/8 inch. The roots penetrate the pieces on occasion. I also use pine bark that is sold as a soil amendment and get the same results. I don't know what Anthony is experiencing, maybe it is the species of tree. I don't think Trinidad has the same pines we do if the have pines at all.

 

[AlainK]

These are the chips i have

That's an interesting gauge: I think you could use it in a mix wil Akadama, pumice, or any other non-organic soil like pozzolane. Here, we use composted pine bark in our mix (about 10%). But most of us have very hard water from the tap, so it helps keeping a more balanced pH. It's also beneficient to the chemisty of the soil, good bacteria, good for mycorrhyzae to develop, etc.

5 €uros for 30 litres. Here's what it looks like:



I think that as long as you don't use too much, it won't clog the pot, but will be beneficial in many ways.

(Like beer, pork fat, the internet, etc.)

 

[defra]

That's an interesting gauge: I think you could use it in a mix wil Akadama, pumice, or any other non-organic soil like pozzolane. Here, we use composted pine bark in our mix (about 10%). But most of us have very hard water from the tap, so it helps keeping a more balanced pH. It's also beneficient to the chemisty of the soil, good bacteria, good for mycorrhyzae to develop, etc.

5 €uros for 30 litres. Here's what it looks like:

View attachment 180630

I think that as long as you don't use too much, it won't clog the pot, but will be beneficial in many ways.

(Like beer, pork fat, the internet, etc.)

Thanx alain yes it purpose should be that it can be used as an addition to a soilmix with only inorganic's and already included the miccorhyza part but didnt include the ph part yet thnx!

For the ones wondering why these questions?

Im building a dutch knowledge base with info based on our climate and written in dutch
one of the things in there is a list of soils that are commonly used for bonsai substrate mixes ill test the abbility of holding moisture and how much and the frost resistance if each discussed soil in there by doing some simple experients

heres my setup translated to english to give you an idea

Pinebark
As the name already sugests its bark from pine tree's.
Pinebark is commonly used as ground covers because it witholds weeds from growing, this are mosthly big chunks.
There are also bags of pinebark for sale that contain smaller particles ranged from 2mm to 8 mm these are the ones we want for bonsai

• Application
• pinebark can/should be used as an addition to your basic soilmix these days most "modern substrates" are based on only inorganic components adding pinebark as organic component to the mix will help with the life in your soil, with this i mean it will increase the abbility of beneficial fungus called miccorhiza to grow in the pot.
• Water retention abillity
• none/low/medium/high/real high
• cation exchange capacity
• none/low/medium/high/real high
• Penetratable by roots
• Yes/no
• Frost resistent
• Yes/no
• Pro's
• Cons
• Misc
  additional info

image with dice for size.

 

[AlainK]

Thanx alain yes it purpose should be that it can be used as an addition to a soilmix with only inorganic's and already included the miccorhyza part but didnt include the ph part yet thnx!

For the ones wondering why these questions?

Im building a dutch knowledge base with info based on our climate and written in dutch

Oh mon dieu !

one of the things in there is a list of soils that are commonly used for bonsai substrate mixes ill test the abbility of holding moisture and how much and the frost resistance if each discussed soil in there by doing some simple experients

heres my setup translated to english to give you an idea

Pinebark
As the name already sugests its bark from pine tree's.
Pinebark is commonly used as ground covers because it witholds weeds from growing, this are mosthly big chunks.

Right.

There are also bags of pinebark for sale that contain smaller particles ranged from 2mm to 8 mm these are the ones we want for bonsai

• Application
• pinebark can/should be used as an addition to your basic soilmix these days most "modern substrates" are based on only inorganic components adding pinebark as organic component to the mix will help with the life in your soil, with this i mean it will increase the abbility of beneficial fungus called miccorhiza to grow in the pot.

Yes: my opinion is that a minimum of organic soil is better than pure Akadama, or non-organic soil. There's a life that helps the roots, and the trees be healthy.

• Water retention abillity
• none/low/medium/high/real high

I'd say high, or medium-high. That's one of the reasons I use composted pine bark in my mix. It helps in the hottest days of summer.

• cation exchange capacity
• none/low/medium/high/real high

no info on that, but if someone can add data, I'd be interested...

• Penetratable by roots
• Yes/no

Yes. It depends on the size of the chunks and how wet they are kept thoughout the season.

• Frost resistent
• Yes/no

No. This is organic: periods of frost followed by thawing will help the chunks braking into smaller pieces.

• Pro's
• Cons
• Misc
  additional info

image with dice for size.

Here, we can't get pine bark that size, except if we sift the bottom of a bag. And I repeat, I'm certain it's an excellent product to add to a soil mix in a reasonable quantity.

 

[Anthony]

IBC as used above means - Americans, Europeans and Canadians.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

I used them, it's a very wet climate in Holland. Thats why i stopped using it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Adding to your questions (sorry if hijacking your thread), how acidic really is pine bark?

I have found it to be somewhere between four and a half (acid) to five and a half (neutral). As long as it is composted it should be somewhere around five.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

IBC as used above means - Americans, Europeans and Canadians.
Good Day
Anthony

???

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I have found it to be somewhere between four and a half (acid) to five and a half (neutral). As long as it is composted it should be somewhere around five.

Vance, not trying to be an ass, but 7 is neutral on the pH scale. 5.5 is still acid, and a pretty good one.

 

[defra]

I used them, it's a very wet climate in Holland. Thats why i stopped using it.

Yes a wet climate it is !
Still if it stays wet to long the mix can be adjusted again by adding more gravel/bims/kiryu ?
I havnt used it yet but i will try it out tough to experiment a little !