Pine crossbreeding in the wild

[TacomaBonsai95]

Hey everyone,
I don't know if this is the right place to discuss this topic but, in my area (South Puget Sound) I always run into trees that seem to display characteristics of both western white pine and lodgpole pines. Is it possible for hybridization to occur in the wild? I included a picture of one of the trees, i will go back and take a closer picture. In these pics you can kinda see the way the needles droop like on a five needle pine.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Hybridization in the wild is possible if the families are closely related.
Scots pines can hybridize with austrian black pine where their habitat overlaps. But that's half of Europe, basically, and it's rare.

If they've lived alongside for millenia and there are no known hybrids in science, you're either the first to describe them or it just doesn't happen due to incompatibility.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Lodgepole pine is Pinus contorta latifolia, it is in the subgenus Pinus, section Trifolia, subsection Contortae.

Western white pine is Pinus monticola, it is in subgenus Strobus, section Quinquefoliae, subsection Strobus

Just looking at Taxonomy, they are quite distantly related I would not expect them to interbreed. Hybrids would appear to be VERY unlikely.

Like crossing dogs with cats, yes, both are carnivores, both live in our homes, often together in the same home, they just don't. Interbreed.

Donkeys and horses do occasionally interbreed, resulting in the mule.

The lodgepole and western white are distant enough that cross breeding is very unlikely.

You are probably seeing natural variation within a species, rather than hybridization.

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

Thanks for the replies and all the info! Hopefully I'll be able to harvest some cones from that tree in the future! There's a lot of shore pine in the area as well.

 

[BrightsideB]

what are the characteristics? If you find a tree that needs more evaluation it is good to take very detailed photo’s. Either removing the tree or scion grafting is the way to go to preserve that specific tree’s genetics. Collecting seeds will be varied and and take years to see what you actually have but you will also have to wait for that tree to mature. Usually people who want to preserve the genetics of a tree in the wild take cuttings for scion grafting either from a tree growing with a mutation or a witch’s broom. Last time I volunteered at an arboretum with over 1000 cultivars we walked the grounds taking cuttings to send in for grafting. It is the most efficient.

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

what are the characteristics? If you find a tree that needs more evaluation it is good to take very detailed photo’s. Either removing the tree or scion grafting is the way to go to preserve that specific tree’s genetics. Collecting seeds will be varied and and take years to see what you actually have but you will also have to wait for that tree to mature. Usually people who want to preserve the genetics of a tree in the wild take cuttings for scion grafting either from a tree growing with a mutation or a witch’s broom. Last time I volunteered at an arboretum with over 1000 cultivars we walked the grounds taking cuttings to send in for grafting. It is the most efficient.

Looks like I'll be doing some research on grafting today! It has characteristics very similar to a western white pine near the top of the tree, like really soft needles that hang downwards. I'll get more pics on Monday or tuesday.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Thanks for the replies and all the info! Hopefully I'll be able to harvest some cones from that tree in the future! There's a lot of shore pine in the area as well.

Regardless if the tree is a hybrid or a unique cultivar of one species. There is no Guarantee . The seeds will produce a exact duplicate . Most likely just a regular version of the species. Don’t get me wrong I would collect seeds also

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

Also

Regardless if the tree is a hybrid or a unique cultivar of one species. There is no Guarantee . The seeds will produce a exact duplicate . Most likely just a regular version of the species. Don’t get me wrong I would collect seeds also

Also, I guess when it produces cones I'll be able to examine those for better identification.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks for the replies and all the info! Hopefully I'll be able to harvest some cones from that tree in the future! There's a lot of shore pine in the area as well.

Lodgepole pine and shore pine are technically subspecies of the same species, very closely related. Shore pine is Pinus contorta contorta, lodgepole is Pinus contorta latifolia. It is possible for these two subspecies to hybridize. In all likelihood, pre-european settlement Tacoma, WA, ONLY had shore pine, with lodgepole being introduced afterwards. Lodgepole is an interior, mountain pine, normally found in Rocky Mountains, at elevation. Replaced in west by shore pine in low elevations, and in east lowlands by Pinus banksiana, the jack pine. In all probability what you think are lodgepole are actually shore pines or shore pine with some lodgepole hybrid gene introgression. A"Botanist" with the capital B and a PhD could sort shore and lodgepole pines out, but they are really quite similar, easy to confuse.

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

Here's a really good dovlcument by USFS where they cross bred a bunch of different pines from different sub-genus'. Super interesting.