Pine repot and refining plan

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Got this pine a few months back, previous owner had worked out the oad but with very bad styling, branches severly bent over each other and 3s and 4s coming from same point as well as bottom.and top branches used. Branches seem long and straight and only at the tip the last tertiary branches form the pads.
Plan is to repot in a non glazed brown deeper abd larger pot, rectangle with corners to match the masculine e shape of the base. I will repot lat jan early Feb bare rooting 2/6 of rootball to hopefully not kill it.
It was labeled pinus nigra and owner told me its a local tree of about 30 years. It is multi flush I believe as it is having its second flush this year . When would you advise to cleanup the branches and start working on refining the pads? This will involve reducing the branches so not sure if I should do it now or 1 year after repot. Also need to wire it to move branches a bit but also to refine tertiary branches, as I will be repoting 3 times next 6 years to get it out of nursery soil when do u think is OK to wire prune and do branch work ? I am fertilizing a bit to get it in good shape for next year repot but it looks pretty healthy..
Should I decandle as the buds push this time to hopefully start having some backbudding ?
Appreciate any input on how to take this tree forward
Screenshot_20210829-111127_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210829-111148_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210829-111204_Gallery.jpg
 

Colorado

Masterpiece
Messages
3,104
Reaction score
8,227
Location
Golden, Colorado
USDA Zone
5b
A couple thoughts:

Pinus nigra is not usually handled like a “true” multiflush pine, such as a Japanese Black Pine. I am certainly no expert, but my understanding is that nigra can be decandled periodically, but not every year. I think if you decandle every year it will eventually become too weak and die. But perhaps in your climate it would be possible, I don’t know. Good luck!
 

Eckhoffw

Masterpiece
Messages
2,934
Reaction score
4,743
Location
St. Paul Mn.
USDA Zone
4b
Multi flush pine? Austrian black pine right?
I didn’t think so.
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Multi flush pine? Austrian black pine right?
I didn’t think so.
Not sure of the ID honestly but previous owner said its local so don't think it's Austrian blab pine.
Not keen to decandle as tree has small needles which I can manage by fertilizing in autumn post flush I believe?
How about cutting down overlaping branches? Can I do it now and wire ?
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,338
Reaction score
11,405
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
According to Wikipedia (if that is a reliable source), pinus nigra occur at higher elevations in Turkey and the higher Atlas mountains in Morocco and Algeria. Lebanon isn't listed as part of its range but as I said, the article could be inaccurate.

Did the person who collected it say what kind of area it was from?

Are there native pines in Lebanon that it could be?

It's an interesting looking pine though.
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Previous owner sells bonsai and has hundreds of trees some he collected himself and many he purchases from local nurseries and works out and sell years later. My only concern is soil he plants them in although he has trees alive for 40--50 years so he must have mastered the watering. As well as the styling as he's self taught and doesn't really follow bonsai norms ....
Yes there are many pine forests, actually believe its the most common tree in Lebanon, not really native but transplanted in Lebanon over the last 200 years for the pune seed industry.
Better shots of the tree trunk and needles for possible ID
Screenshot_20210830-070613_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20210830-070633_Gallery.jpg
And pine trees next to my place.
Screenshot_20210830-070648_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20210830-070714_Gallery.jpg
Believe those are Red pines ?
We also get stone pines i believe with the juvenile.and mature foliage Screenshot_20210830-070736_Gallery.jpg
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,403
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Personally "think" yours may be Scots Pine from bark, needles and buds. Strange neighbor trees you have. Do Giraffes inhabit this area?
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Personally "think" yours may be Scots Pine from bark, needles and buds. Strange neighbor trees you have. Do Giraffes inhabit this area?
Isn't Scott's pune single flush as I'm sure it flushed twice this year. No giraffes here unfortunately, nor any animals for whats worth, believe these get trimmed by people managing them as those are pruned for pine seeds I believe ...
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,208
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
I have not worked with Pinus nigra but I'd be happy to do the reduction pruning now and then repot in spring. Should be enough time between now and spring for the tree to be OK with both.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Plan is to repot in a non glazed brown deeper abd larger pot, rectangle with corners to match the masculine e shape of the base. I will repot lat jan early Feb bare rooting 2/6 of rootball to hopefully not kill it.
It was labeled pinus nigra and owner told me its a local tree of about 30 years.

If it's true this is on year 30, I would consult that dude about repotting time and action.

That pot is small enough to just fluff out the roots some and get it into your preffered pot.

Bare rooting, half, third or otherwise isn't really necessary, but again, I'd ask that dude.

This is one of the nicest trees I've seen from you. I dog the exit angles of the branches and placement ain't too shabby either.

Question....
Do you have a bandaid on a thumb or something!?🤔😉🤣

Sorce
 

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,098
Reaction score
3,173
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
Previous owner sells bonsai and has hundreds of trees some he collected himself and many he purchases from local nurseries and works out and sell years later. My only concern is soil he plants them in although he has trees alive for 40--50 years so he must have mastered the watering. As well as the styling as he's self taught and doesn't really follow bonsai norms ....
Yes there are many pine forests, actually believe its the most common tree in Lebanon, not really native but transplanted in Lebanon over the last 200 years for the pune seed industry.
Better shots of the tree trunk and needles for possible ID


And pine trees next to my place.
View attachment 394827View attachment 394828
Believe those are Red pines ?
We also get stone pines i believe with the juvenile.and mature foliage
Beautiful nearby place. The pines are fabulous. It’s not how I imagined the land of Lebanon. You changed my view. Mighty fine!
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
I
If it's true this is on year 30, I would consult that dude about repotting time and action.

That pot is small enough to just fluff out the roots some and get it into your preffered pot.

Bare rooting, half, third or otherwise isn't really necessary, but again, I'd ask that dude.

This is one of the nicest trees I've seen from you. I dog the exit angles of the branches and placement ain't too shabby either.

Question....
Do you have a bandaid on a thumb or something!?🤔😉🤣

Sorce
I kill half of the trees I get from him.from watering. The other half I kill in repot so definitely can't ask him about repoting his trees. And inorganic soil is a very very sensitive topic to him. :)
Must be cause it wasn't I who styled it ;)
I like its design yet the way branches are laid is what bugs me so looking to clean it up and move it to a nicer pot and that would be it, won't change much to the overall look.
Bandaid on thumb??? No i don't
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Wrl
Beautiful nearby place. The pines are fabulous. It’s not how I imagined the land of Lebanon. You changed my view. Mighty fine!
L definitely depends where u are. This is 5 km min away from Beirut and at an altitude of about 250 . I get a nice mountain view as well as a peak on the Mediterranean Sea...
Glad you liked it Screenshot_20210830-160448_Gallery.jpg
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,338
Reaction score
11,405
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
Personally "think" yours may be Scots Pine from bark, needles and buds. Strange neighbor trees you have. Do Giraffes inhabit this area?

Yea it's funny you say that because I had the same thought. Apparently Turkish pine are native to Lebanon and the Stone pines are cultivated for their seed as the OP stated. All are 2 needle pines as well as pinus nigra so it could be any one of them.

I agree with Tieball. It's also not how I envisioned Lebanon either. It is a pretty area where those pictures were taken.
 
Last edited:

BobbyLane

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,058
Reaction score
17,659
Location
London, England
Wrl
L definitely depends where u are. This is 5 km min away from Beirut and at an altitude of about 250 . I get a nice mountain view as well as a peak on the Mediterranean Sea...
Glad you liked it View attachment 394872
there is so much inspiration in your country, but mostly i see you asking for advice to style your trees even the olives and cedars which grow wild in your location.
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,248
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
I
I kill half of the trees I get from him.from watering. The other half I kill in repot so definitely can't ask him about repoting his trees. And inorganic soil is a very very sensitive topic to him. :)
Must be cause it wasn't I who styled it ;)
I like its design yet the way branches are laid is what bugs me so looking to clean it up and move it to a nicer pot and that would be it, won't change much to the overall look.
Bandaid on thumb??? No i don't
I think there's more than watering involved here. More probably you kill them from potting-down too much/too fast and the trees become more susceptible to watering errors, et al. If you buy them in pots, don't repot until and unless you can keep them alive in situ for at least one complete year. Then, repot at the proper time assuming that you will take another repot step down one or more years later. We do not expect a tree to become a show-able tree in the first potting down-sizing, or even the second, why should we assume that it needs to be in a show-able size pot any sooner than the top is show-able? (I'm assuming a lot about your procedure.)
 

maroun.c

Omono
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
482
Location
Beirut Lebanon
Yea it's funny you say that because I had the same thought. Apparently Turkish pine are native to Lebanon and the Stone pines are cultivated for their seed as the OP stated. All are 2 needle pines as well as pinus nigra so it could be any one of them.

I agree with Tieball. It's also not how I envisioned Lebanon either. It is a pretty area where those pictures were taken.
Indeed a bit tricky with IDs. Believe the pine started getting introduced here with French colonisation which also affected surrounding countries like Turkey.
It is a beautiful country (and a very ugly one) depending where you are even though its tiny... so much controversy. This area is the view from my place which isn't even close to many nicer areas...
 
Top Bottom