Pines ID

[maroun.c]

Got few pines to train on repotting, wiring and basic keeping them.alive as I struggled with pines so far. I got 4 of these and they had no clear ID on the in nursery. The more I look at them the more I think they look more like a cedar:


This one looks a bit different, took it for the movement in the trunk. Looks more like a pine but not getting the difference in needle length on the tip of each branch compared to smaller ones in the back of the branch.

I plan to move these to bonsai soil in Feb and maybe do a cleanup and basic shaping or wouldn't be best to cut few unnecessary branches now and then move to better soil in late Feb?
Thanks

 

[Gsquared]

The first tree has me stumped. At first I thought it might not be a pine, rather a spruce. But when I look at the close up pic looks like needles might be in pairs. Can’t tell for sure.

The second looks like one of those little trees you buy at Christmas at the grocery store. I believe it is an Italian stone pine. The difference in the needles is the small, bluer needles are juvenile foliage, the longer ones are mature. They chop them way back to induce growth of juvenile foliage to make Xmas trees. I’ve seen dozens of these brought in to club workshops, and every time the sensei said they never would make a good bonsai because of the different types of needles.

 

[Shibui]

I agree. First is ambiguous and not enough detail in the pics to get an ID. Maybe a good clear shot of the growth near the top would help?

My immediate thought for the second was Pinus halapensis - again because of the blue juvenile growth and long, green mature needles. After a second look I agree that Pinus pinea (Italian stone pine) is even more likely.
Both these species are Mediterranean so are likely to be sold in your area and both should grow well there too. I have seen a few of both used as bonsai so they can be used but they both seem to have drawbacks for bonsai.

 

[Potawatomi13]

First tree looks like(maybe)single leaf Pinon Pine. Agree last tree looks like Italian Stone Pine.

 

[maroun.c]

Tricky to.tell but believe the needles are in pairs in both.
First


Second



Understand that the second wouldn't make a good bonsai due to the difference in leaves and the extra long needles. Any specific reason why second kne wouldn't as well. Again these aren't anything important just few trees I plan to train on repotting and styling, wiring on so not an issue if they aren't good quality.
Any advice when to repot, and if I can start taking out some.branches and doing initial wiring on them?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hmm? That being said "maybe" first tree is Scots pine or an odd cultivar. Buds very different from Italian Stone Pine which look fuzzy

 

[misfit11]

Looks like an Italian Stone Pine. I'm not aware of any other pines that make that juvenile foliage like that.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Looks like an Italian Stone Pine. I'm not aware of any other pines that make that juvenile foliage like that.

Halepensis does it in the early stages. I'm not sure about the adult ones. It can be grown in hotter regions like Lebanon and it might have ended up there from Greece or Turkey.
From my experience, italian stone pines are fast in barking up.

 

[maroun.c]

Guess it will be challenging to find the correct ID for the first pine (I got a few more of this to train on and a couple seem to have an interesting trunk )
I plan to repot and half bare root around March (too hot 25-35 degrees celsius here in summer )
Not sure if I should take out bad branches and up/down needles at same time?
Would I wire now or in autumn?
I dont know if they are single or dual flush which I feel is necessary to know and not sure if any of above work might affect this year flush for meto know if they're single or dual flush .
Thanks for any suggestions on the plan for those prioritizing removing from bad nursery soil this year and next year.

 

[misfit11]

That first tree isn't a pine. It looks like some sort of Spruce. Possibly an Alberta Spruce.

 

[maroun.c]

Interesting that u mention spruce. I picked up.jne more looking the same yesterday from same nursery.
Asked if they had ab ID and apparently they had some confused trees that got misplaced. One employee said she recalled these were picea species. Heres the tree I got yesterday which has the most potential I guess



Appreciate input on plan for those for coming months
When to repot, half bare root like pines ? Doni do branch pruning and needle cleanup as well at time of repot ? Wiring?
Thanks for ur suggestions

 

[Gsquared]

That is a dwarf Alberta spruce. I’ve not worked one, but there are a lot used in yards and gardens here. I think they like cold in the winter.