pines in the mail

Zappa

Yamadori
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Hello Ive been looking for japanese black pine stock...I've noticed a few sales on ebay, but they are bare root shipping...I was under the assumption that pines shouldnt ever have all of the soil removed from the root ball(some kind of needed fungus)...anyone have any helpful insight?
 

ovation22

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Bare root seedlings are fine. I received 100 1-0 seedlings just this February.
 

cray13

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Same here.

I purchased 100 seedlings 2-0 seedlings from Musser Forests

I've also purchased some from Strathmeyer.

It is probably better to get 1-0 (meaning 1 year old and never transplanted) but 2-0 was all they had available. I prefer Musser since I was able to do everything online and they did a very good job of packing the seedlings for shipment. With Strathmeyer I had to phone in my order and the packaging was not quite as good as Musser (some of the seedlings roots dried out in shipment).

Barerooting trees this young is ok. I suffered about a 30% loss after root pruning and transplanting. Pretty acceptable when you're paying less than a dollar per tree. Older trees are a different story.
 

Brent

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Bare root seedlings are fine. I received 100 1-0 seedlings just this February.

True, but I think we need to qualify this a bit. Bareroot seedlings should only be delivered in late winter. The bareroot season usually begins after the first of the year and goes through about the end of March. Getting plants later than that is risky and losses are likely.

You need to order from a reputable dealer who knows what he is doing. You need to get the plants the same week they are shipped, that is, shipped on Monday and arrive before Friday. Find out if they need to be fumigated before shipping. In general, fumigation is to be avoided if at all possible. Get them potted up immediately after arrival, or just as soon as you can.

Proper treatment after they arrive is essential. This includes proper root pruning, soil, and environment. I have written an article that covers a lot of this: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/rootprsd.htm

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
 
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Also be aware that unless you are prepared with proper greenhouse coverage and plenty of time or automated watering, your attrition rate will be quite high. I am glad, however, that so many people are propagating Japanese black pine. Good younger material is desperately needed.
 

ovation22

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How right you are, Brent. Timing is very important. A lot of good information on that site of yours.

I have ordered from Brooks Tree Farm and I think others have as well.

Matt Ouwinga is another good source for seedlings. I have not personally ordered from him, but he talks a good game. :) Here is his site.
 

Zappa

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I'm seeing alot of people mentioning late winter/early spring plantings...are fall plantings out of the question?
 

Brent

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I'm seeing alot of people mentioning late winter/early spring plantings...are fall plantings out of the question?

Fall planting and repotting has its place, which I don't have time to go into at the moment, but ordinarily, you can't get bareroot trees in the fall. If someone is willing to sell you bareroot in the fall, steer clear of them.

Brent
 

Graydon

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Also be aware that unless you are prepared with proper greenhouse coverage and plenty of time or automated watering, your attrition rate will be quite high. I am glad, however, that so many people are propagating Japanese black pine. Good younger material is desperately needed.

Huh? Greenhouse? George (Wahoo 172) and I did over 200 1-0 JPB last winter and we have had nearly zero losses (perhaps 1 or 2) with no greenhouse or much aftercare besides watering and feeding. They have always been in the frying pan of the Florida sun after potting up. Perhaps you need greenhouse in your area (or some other areas of the country) but not here.

I would advise people to shop locally and not nationally for seedlings. It's a shorter distance to ship thus less time out of soil. For instance I get mine from north Florida in the panhandle and I am in central Florida. If you are looking for them and can't find them check with a wholesale tree farm. They may not have them but no doubt they know a local source for 1-0 and 2-0 seedlings or liners.

I would also suggest unless you are looking for hundreds of trees ready to go that seeds can be a viable way to get pines. It's not commercially viable for someone like Brent but a amateur bonsaist can grow hundreds of pines in less than 100 square feet in the back yard, either in small containers or in the ground. With JBP the root cutting and hormone technique works great and does yield much better branching and future nebari than most 1-0 will provide.
 
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Last October Vance Wood and myself recieved 100 3 year old pine plugs, 50 Japanese Black Pines and 50 Scots Pines, we had little choice but to pot them then, basically bare root, and had to do some minor root pruning only to fit the pots.

Since that time we lost 2 scots pines and 15 Black Pines, all were kept in the same area, protected the same over winter (protected from wind but outside), and treated the same overall. Living in Michigan, we ordered from a Michigan source.

The remaining trees are healthy, growing like mad, and generally thriving.

17% loss ratio or a 83% survial ration, depending on your outlook.

Recommended? Never. I think the very mild early winter we had here saved most of the trees, all in all I can't complain though.




Will
 

ovation22

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I'm going to defer to Brent on this one. He is much more knowledgeable than I.

Sure, there will be varying success based on experience, treatment, care, weather, etc. I would think that Zappa's climate would be more similar to mine than to Graydon's in central Florida. And Will seems to have success in the colder parts.


Take care.
 
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Huh? Greenhouse? George (Wahoo 172) and I did over 200 1-0 JPB last winter and we have had nearly zero losses (perhaps 1 or 2) with no greenhouse or much aftercare besides watering and feeding. They have always been in the frying pan of the Florida sun after potting up. Perhaps you need greenhouse in your area (or some other areas of the country) but not here.

I would advise people to shop locally and not nationally for seedlings. It's a shorter distance to ship thus less time out of soil. For instance I get mine from north Florida in the panhandle and I am in central Florida. If you are looking for them and can't find them check with a wholesale tree farm. They may not have them but no doubt they know a local source for 1-0 and 2-0 seedlings or liners.

I would also suggest unless you are looking for hundreds of trees ready to go that seeds can be a viable way to get pines. It's not commercially viable for someone like Brent but a amateur bonsaist can grow hundreds of pines in less than 100 square feet in the back yard, either in small containers or in the ground. With JBP the root cutting and hormone technique works great and does yield much better branching and future nebari than most 1-0 will provide.

Graydon, my point exactly. You don't have late spring freezes like we do here, or even like Clarksville, TN. And even Will mentioned what a mild winter they had this year. My only point was that you have to be prepared or start again.
 

cray13

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Being short on patience I actually went ahead and potted 25 (2-0) seedlings the first of last October here in central NC. I didn't expect any to survive but 15 of the 25 made it through the winter. I overwintered them by placing the containers on the ground mulched in with a windbreak around them to cut the winter wind. I did this with the expectation that I'd have to start over this spring, but this was my first attempt and I thought it would be a good exercise to prepare me for February when I planned to pot 100.

I'm guessing my climate is pretty close to Zappa's here. For the best chance of success I'd definitely follow Brent's advice and as Chris said be prepared to start over if you do try to plant anything in the fall.

Good luck.
 

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