Pines in winter care?

[Littlejoe919]

This was taken from facebook as a reply to someone asking about Ponderosa's in zone 8a. Is there truth to this thinking?



"if Dormant for a short period, straight shade on the north side, is beneficial, rather than detrimental.
Here, in winter, the sun is almost horizontal and everything except the pine tips are in shade.

Light in winter tends to activate pine, and for curiousity, as an ‘old saw’, pine bonsai were never to be exposed to winter sun.
It was a painful revelation that this also applied to in-ground pine before cone production, and discovered in the ensuing research that the overwork/laziness of not cutting tall grass actually saved young pine up to about 6 feet in height.

The red light (Hunters Moon next day sun) causes the light signals lapsing hormones to induce toward dormancy, and also brings the pine out of dormancy (ie: Planters Moon), and if dormant, causes sun scald when frozen.

Mentioning the common practice of Moons, because the light spectrum is noticeable at those times at night, when in reality the daylight red light is not really visible, and coincides.
..one of those ‘no s—te!’ times when old lore, and with no available nursery grow research, finally matches up with new science in the last decade.

If you have a test 2 or 3 extra pine, overwinter each in different places to test the best result, and keep the bonsai on the north until better information comes out of the research...

(Conversely, please, explain why light or partial light would be ‘more sound’.. being that, only morning refracted light is red light.... talk it through..)"

 

[0soyoung]

Read up on how photosynthesis works. The issue is that photons captured by PSII produce hydrogen that lowers the pH inside the thylakoids. ATP synthase uses these hydrogens to make ATP in passing them outside the thylakoid. The rate that ATP synthase does this declines with decreasing temperature. So, the colder it gets the more sunlight tends to create circumstances that will damage the photosynthetic apparatus --> more shade the colder it gets.

Many alpine species, though, increase their xanthophylls which makes the leaves turn yellow(ish). Xanthophylls divert the photo-energy away from the PSII reaction center so that the energy gets dissipated as a little bit of heat. Any alpine species that exhibits winter yellowing like lodgepole pines and some varieties of Japanese white pine, as examples, notably do probably don't require winter shade.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

That is true, given that there is a true dormancy. I'm thinking that there are varying degrees of dormancy.
Mugo is still flushing right now. Junipers are growing right now. Scots are asleep, at least the adults, seedlings still grow.
And we've had 3 or 4 frosty nights, over the past 2 weeks. So everything should have stopped being active. Even the lawn is still growing happily.

Another, very reasonable reason why covered pine seedlings survive better than unprotected ones is cover (thermal, wind) and humidity (due to plants being around) that provide better frost protection. A layer of ice can protect internal structures. Humus rich soils, like in covered areas, have the advantage of the microbiome support, as well as some heat capture and even heat production due to composting processes.

I'm thinking it's not 'just' the sun. But many variables that can explain the entire cause-effect relation.

The change of spectrum by the way, would lower the effect on chlorophyll anyways, because chlorofyll is not as responsive to reds compared to blues.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

This was taken from facebook as a reply to someone asking about Ponderosa's in zone 8a. Is there truth to this thinking?



"if Dormant for a short period, straight shade on the north side, is beneficial, rather than detrimental.
Here, in winter, the sun is almost horizontal and everything except the pine tips are in shade.

Light in winter tends to activate pine, and for curiousity, as an ‘old saw’, pine bonsai were never to be exposed to winter sun.
It was a painful revelation that this also applied to in-ground pine before cone production, and discovered in the ensuing research that the overwork/laziness of not cutting tall grass actually saved young pine up to about 6 feet in height.

The red light (Hunters Moon next day sun) causes the light signals lapsing hormones to induce toward dormancy, and also brings the pine out of dormancy (ie: Planters Moon), and if dormant, causes sun scald when frozen.

Mentioning the common practice of Moons, because the light spectrum is noticeable at those times at night, when in reality the daylight red light is not really visible, and coincides.
..one of those ‘no s—te!’ times when old lore, and with no available nursery grow research, finally matches up with new science in the last decade.

If you have a test 2 or 3 extra pine, overwinter each in different places to test the best result, and keep the bonsai on the north until better information comes out of the research...

(Conversely, please, explain why light or partial light would be ‘more sound’.. being that, only morning refracted light is red light.... talk it through..)"

Here is the real question: Does this poster’s trees and actual experience suggest you should be listening to him?

 

[Potawatomi13]

This was taken from facebook as a reply to someone asking about Ponderosa's in zone 8a. Is there truth to this thinking?



"if Dormant for a short period, straight shade on the north side, is beneficial, rather than detrimental.
Here, in winter, the sun is almost horizontal and everything except the pine tips are in shade.

Light in winter tends to activate pine, and for curiousity, as an ‘old saw’, pine bonsai were never to be exposed to winter sun.
It was a painful revelation that this also applied to in-ground pine before cone production, and discovered in the ensuing research that the overwork/laziness of not cutting tall grass actually saved young pine up to about 6 feet in height.

The red light (Hunters Moon next day sun) causes the light signals lapsing hormones to induce toward dormancy, and also brings the pine out of dormancy (ie: Planters Moon), and if dormant, causes sun scald when frozen.

Mentioning the common practice of Moons, because the light spectrum is noticeable at those times at night, when in reality the daylight red light is not really visible, and coincides.
..one of those ‘no s—te!’ times when old lore, and with no available nursery grow research, finally matches up with new science in the last decade.

If you have a test 2 or 3 extra pine, overwinter each in different places to test the best result, and keep the bonsai on the north until better information comes out of the research...

(Conversely, please, explain why light or partial light would be ‘more sound’.. being that, only morning refracted light is red light.... talk it through..)"

Inaccurate. Observe trees Fall/winter growth rings. Notice term is "growth" not dormant rings. Metabolism continues at reserved rate. Many/most Pine trees except for young/short trees under snow exposed all year long and most avoid or do poorly in north/shaded condition. Past week(Nov 20)Mirai Live stream mentions year long continuing metabolism in trees. Best advice from personal experience is leave trees exposed to Sun or expect spring Sunburn. One caution; If sub zero arctic winds prevail several days is best to use windbreak for trees or change location until past.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This was taken from facebook as a reply to someone asking about Ponderosa's in zone 8a. Is there truth to this thinking?



"if Dormant for a short period, straight shade on the north side, is beneficial, rather than detrimental.
Here, in winter, the sun is almost horizontal and everything except the pine tips are in shade.

Light in winter tends to activate pine, and for curiousity, as an ‘old saw’, pine bonsai were never to be exposed to winter sun.
It was a painful revelation that this also applied to in-ground pine before cone production, and discovered in the ensuing research that the overwork/laziness of not cutting tall grass actually saved young pine up to about 6 feet in height.

The red light (Hunters Moon next day sun) causes the light signals lapsing hormones to induce toward dormancy, and also brings the pine out of dormancy (ie: Planters Moon), and if dormant, causes sun scald when frozen.

Mentioning the common practice of Moons, because the light spectrum is noticeable at those times at night, when in reality the daylight red light is not really visible, and coincides.
..one of those ‘no s—te!’ times when old lore, and with no available nursery grow research, finally matches up with new science in the last decade.

If you have a test 2 or 3 extra pine, overwinter each in different places to test the best result, and keep the bonsai on the north until better information comes out of the research...

(Conversely, please, explain why light or partial light would be ‘more sound’.. being that, only morning refracted light is red light.... talk it through..)"

Mostly gobbly gook, ignore the advice. Ponderosa are cold and sun tolerant. In zone 5 b I'm wintering them simply on the ground. They still get full sun at least half the day.

In zone 8, winter in the shade may help keep cool, to better meet the dormancy requirements. I would think your climate is almost too warm in winter for ponderosa.

 

[0soyoung]

In zone 8, winter in the shade may help keep cool, to better meet the dormancy requirements. I would think your climate is almost too warm in winter for ponderosa.

Zone 8 is not to warm - to wit Ryan Neil and Randy Knight, as well as Mike Haggedorn are all in zone 8.