Pinus contorta contorta (Shore pine)

[ghues]

There we are. One more season like that and you`ll have a lovely Welsh pine

The contorta, contorta would do well there I'm sure.

 

[ghues]

I just took a look: there’s zero backbudding on the old wood. This year it put on a weak spring flush but it’s now starting on a second flush! The winter and spring were super wet, so this growing season hasn’t quite been ideal.

From what I’ve seen so far, the pinus contorta var murrayana subspecies produces backbuds quicker and more vigorously than pinus contorta contorta.[/QUOTE

This discussion made me curious......For clarity we need to define "old wood" for it might mean different things to different people. I have a number of PCC......so I've just sampled 8 trees -7 collected in late summer 2016 - all in grow boxes or pots (over sized) and one that's about 8 years in training.....this later one has had some similar work given to it as @garywood describes above. In post #37.
However the ones from 2016 have not been touched.....on all 8 trees I cannot see any back budding older than 4-5 year old wood (branches), nothing close to the bole of the tree. Some of the branches are way too long for any future design but this type of back budding does give some options.
So with my oldest tree the trick for me was to cut back elongated branches which did provide further back budding? It's almost at the refinement stage that @Adair M desribes above in post #29.
It makes sense (to me) that the 2016 collected trees has given me a great number of back-buds within the last four years growth.......they were either struggling to survive in a bog or rock outcrop....then they were given "nirvana" (highest happiness lol); a great soil mix, lots of fert and constant watering, this years extensions were not overly long, but the buds are significant in size and I have not and will not remove any of 2016/17 needles until next year.
So what's old wood to you guys with these pines?
Cheers from the Bonsai Pit.
Graham

 

[parhamr]

@ghues “old wood” to me is when the bark starts corking and exfoliating. Before then, the mottled scars from needles are still visible.

 

[ghues]

@ghues “old wood” to me is when the bark starts corking and exfoliating. Before then, the mottled scars from needles are still visible.

But the discussion I thought was about backbudding on old wood, that's what I was referring too.

 

[parhamr]

Okay. I went to mentorship class.

Since it's already a chunky shore pine without a lot of close in buds I might as well play up its traits. This is now a windswept tree. This is my first windswept tree.



I'd like to continue tiny tweaks to the main branch positioning and planting angle. I've only done primary and secondary wiring. I'll continue growing out this tree for strength.

There are some middling strength buds at the end of the previous years' growing tips.

 

[parhamr]

I have more 14 gauge wire on the way. I'm out!

 

[parhamr]

 

[justBonsai]

Cool tree. I wonder if you can put more movement in some of those branches.

 

[Wilson]

I like how that last image looks. It will be real nice with some extra movement, and thickened up. Beauty!

 

[parhamr]

Update:

(This isn’t quite the right angle, but it’s close)

 

[parhamr]

It’s now in a 12" round pot from Bent Pine Pottery in State College, Pennsylvania.

The roots are looking pretty good. I was able to do about a half bare root to clear out some old nursery soil. The nebari is starting to get interesting, but I had to slightly cover it up with soil and sphagnum to continue development of surface roots.

Now that I have a more definite front and planting angle I should be able to adjust some of the branch positioning more effectively than before.

This tree is now on the heat bed in my greenhouse. I’m eager to see how it responds!

 

[Vance Wood]

I've purchased another native North American nursery specimen: a Pinus contorta contorta 'Spaan’s Dwarf' cultivar. I was feeling like taking a bit of a risk with my wallet and tools; it cost $84.99 for a specimen with 2.5" trunk diameter, 24" height, and healthy roots that fill a ~5 gallon nursery pot.

View attachment 111922

I removed a lot of foliage that was crossing, straight and overgrown, and growing up or down. I'm planning that the form will be a gnarled and twisted informal upright, as if it has been exposed to winds and unstable soil.

View attachment 111923

I took off more than the recommended amount of foliage but I feel confident it will survive: this is native to my area, the tree is in perfect health, and I have become pretty good with aftercare. I'll now baby the tree for two years and then gradually select for new, back-budded foliage.

View attachment 111924

I removed some of the upper soil to expose the base, reported into a 10-gallon grow bag, inoculated with ectomycorrhizal tablets, and used equal parts pumice, diatomite gravel, and pine bark. I fed the tree with iron and cottonseed meal.

There is always one factor that you have to consider beyond, quoting you above: I feel confident it will survive: this is native to my area, the tree is in perfect health. As true as this is sometimes cultivars do not perform as the species, sometimes better, sometimes worse but usually unpredictably.

 

[Wilson]

View attachment 224875

It’s now in a 12" round pot from Bent Pine Pottery in State College, Pennsylvania.

The roots are looking pretty good. I was able to do about a half bare root to clear out some old nursery soil. The nebari is starting to get interesting, but I had to slightly cover it up with soil and sphagnum to continue development of surface roots.

Now that I have a more definite front and planting angle I should be able to adjust some of the branch positioning more effectively than before.

This tree is now on the heat bed in my greenhouse. I’m eager to see how it responds!

So will you pull some branches down, and spread out the branches? I am digging the windswept look, and think as you do more branch selection/placement it will be great!

 

[parhamr]

So will you pull some branches down, and spread out the branches?

Yes!

 

[Wilson]

The last two summers I have looked at some big ones, but never pull the trigger. I always love the dark coloured bark, and small needles. They are definetly more expensive here inthe east!

 

[parhamr]

I dropped some of the branches. It’s not quite right but this feels like an iterative improvement. I’m pleased with the addition of depth and shadow.


I think this photo would have been better with the tree slightly rotated clockwise.

Its growth this year is fairly strong. I’ve removed some branch tips where whorls had more than two branches.

 

[0soyoung]

You didn't ask, but I'm tellin'
I think you've got too much 'up-sweep' of the branch ends. It would look better IMHO if just the last bit of green pointed up.

 

[parhamr]

You didn't ask, but I'm tellin'
I think you've got too much 'up-sweep' of the branch ends. It would look better IMHO if just the last bit of green pointed up.

Agreed. The wiring is only coarse branch placement, right now. The fine wiring I would use to do that hasn’t yet been applied to this tree.

 

[parhamr]

I’m selling some trees tomorrow and this one might go. If not, it might otherwise go to a BSOP raffle.


I like this tree, but don’t love it. The practice and creative expression has been nice. Right now it’s fully unwired. The wire was effective and bit in just the right amount.

 

[parhamr]

I still have it and it’s growing on me. Secondary and tertiary wiring, plus making pads are all really turning it a bit more interesting. The upper canopy section still needs to be sorted out… that’ll come, but it looks like a bit of a rat’s nest from here.


I like the upright bud orientation and extending candles. After this year’s primary wiring the buds were pointing all over the place, which wasn’t a great look.

I think I’m starting to figure out watering routines for pines. This tree is picking up strength after last year’s root work.