Pinus Nigra. 3 perspectives

A. Gorilla

Omono
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I just bought one. The guy I bought it from said they are treated essentially the same as JBP as far as de-candling and second growth. He pointed out the newer growth of the this season, and I had no reason to not believe him. I mean, I see it with my own two eyes.

But then, the first search of them innernets told me they should be treated like JWP. Confidently so. No second growth. Wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting that.

A second search of the intertubes yielded an averaged-out answer of "de-candle, but do it conservatively"...whatever that means.

I hereby open the competition for a fourth unique answer.

Bonus points for creativity.

Seriously though. Stick with the first advice right from the horse's mouth?
 

aml1014

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I just bought one. The guy I bought it from said they are treated essentially the same as JBP as far as de-candling and second growth. He pointed out the newer growth of the this season, and I had no reason to not believe him. I mean, I see it with my own two eyes.

But then, the first search of them innernets told me they should be treated like JWP. Confidently so. No second growth. Wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting that.

A second search of the intertubes yielded an averaged-out answer of "de-candle, but do it conservatively"...whatever that means.

I hereby open the competition for a fourth unique answer.

Bonus points for creativity.

Seriously though. Stick with the first advice right from the horse's mouth?
What I've read on them is to be treated like a JBP, they do have a natural second growth flush where I live so I'd imagine they are pretty tough. I've only had one for a few months and it's not in that stage of development yet so I can't say from experience.

Aaron
 
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I live in zone 5-6 and have had a few Austrian pines I've grown for over 20 years. They do not put out a second flush of growth. I have trimmed long shoots late in the summer and have had them set multiple buds which elongate the next year. I have also cut back into last years growth and had success in getting adventitious buds.
 

petegreg

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I hope this is not a fourth unique answer...

I saw somewhere on WP's blog his response on this Q, but unable to find it He responded he treated them like JBPs.

And yes, they are single flush pines, but we treat and prune mugos and scots pines same or very similar way, don't we? So we can Shoot prune them in the summer and the difference is that new buds will "open" next spring. Plus expected and desired back budding. My thought.

edit:...do it conservatively can mean leaving few pairs of new needles when decandling or not to do it every year.
 
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GGB

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I have an Austrian (P. nigra) and it definitely has never given me two flushes. I didn't treat mine like JWP or a JBP, I treated it like a red headed step child. Everything I read said they made poor bonsai so I figured i'd go extreme and use it to learn the limits. It's just barely alive today, but showing some great potential as a bonsai. My advice is to ignore text / people telling you it's poor material. @petegreg I second treating them like Scots pine, probably what I should've done
 

GGB

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From my limited experience I have found that they back bud well too. Not sure how "shrinkable" the needles are since mine is only a prebonsai but I hear it's hard to do and they are best suited for larger finished sizes. Mine currently has 1" needles but like I said above, it's probably about ready to give up the ghost
 

Paradox

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a fourth unique answer.

An Out of This World Bonsai Story

Two aliens from the planet Armicron had just graduated from their planet’s university. They were really looking forward to joining the invasion forces that were sent to assimilate other planets. Sadly neither of these two were very bright, in fact they were considered to be delinquents by the standards of the normal population. They had failed both the “Assimilating Planets” class and the “Identifying Intelligent Lifeforms” class so they weren’t accepted into the Invasion Forces Corps. Instead, they were sent to work in the planet’s agriculture fields because of their seemingly innate talent for growing plants. They had obtained this skill because they liked to grow a species of illegal hallucinogenic plants used by some of the deviant youth to get high by smoking them.

They were really bored growing vegetables and dreamt of wreaking havoc and terrorizing the population on some distant planet. So one day they decided to hotwire an intergalactic transport ship and left to find a planet to conquer on their own. They came across Earth and tried to land on Mt Fuji in Japan, thinking they could use the crater to hide their ship. Their timing couldn’t have been worse, because as it happened, just as they were landing, the volcano decided to erupt. Barely escaping with their buts slightly singed, they plunged their ship into the ocean off Honshu to cool it off, but not without a near crash into the nearby coastline. After this ordeal, they finally found a safe place to land in the forests of eastern Mediterranean region.

They left their ship on an expedition and found themselves in a forest of tall pine trees. Now these pine trees looked very similar to the illegal hallucinogenic plants they were familiar with from home. After their near death experience with Mt. Fuji, they decided that they deserved some relaxation. So they picked some of the needles off the pines and rolled them into a cigar and started smoking them. The resulting euphoria was unlike any that they had experienced before. Soon they fell asleep in a quiet ecstasy.

The next morning, they awoke in great spirits, unlike they typical hangover their drugs at home gave them. They set to work examining the damage from the volcano and the near crash in Japan. In their haste to escape frying in the blast of the volcano, they had forgotten to raise their landing pods. Luckily they were undamaged by the brush with the Japanese coastline, but they found another kind of pine tree logged in the supports of the landing pods. Figuring they might as well test out this new plant to see if it was as good as the ones they had sampled the night before, they rolled and smoked some of that one too. Well, this plant had a different but just as pleasurable effect on them and they couldn’t decide which one they liked better. They decided to breed and grow a hybrid of these two trees, in the hopes that they might combine and enhance the hallucinogenic effects of both into one. Finally they could use their talents at doing something worthwhile besides growing boring vegetables!

It worked! They developed a new hybrid pine tree. As they had hoped, effects were better than the other two alone. “To hell with conquering this planet” they said to each other “we can make a fortune selling this new plant to our comrades back home!” So they set about planting them in a remote area in southern British Columbia. For years they grew and shipped their new commodity back home, and they became rich.

Unfortunately, they were shot down over Russia on a return trip and were never heard from again.

Years later, a Canadian bonsai enthusiast found their fields of hybrid pines and realized that these would make excellent bonsai. He started collecting and selling them to bonsai enthusiasts all over North America.

So there it is, your pine must be one of those hybrid pines.

Otherwise I have no idea.
I had fun making up this story though
Sorry, I couldnt help it
 
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Eric Group

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I just bought one. The guy I bought it from said they are treated essentially the same as JBP as far as de-candling and second growth. He pointed out the newer growth of the this season, and I had no reason to not believe him. I mean, I see it with my own two eyes.

But then, the first search of them innernets told me they should be treated like JWP. Confidently so. No second growth. Wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting that.

A second search of the intertubes yielded an averaged-out answer of "de-candle, but do it conservatively"...whatever that means.

I hereby open the competition for a fourth unique answer.

Bonus points for creativity.

Seriously though. Stick with the first advice right from the horse's mouth?
I style them like Austrian Black Pines
:)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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LOL - Eric is right, seriously, each species has its own rhythm, its own growing pattern, you will need to learn it and apply any techniques with the natural rhythm of P. nigra in mind. The Japanese masters never mention P. nigra, and so none of their writings will adequately cover it. Pine techniques are the same regardless of species, but which ones to use when will be unique to each species.

In growth habit P. nigra is most like P. sylvestris, and to a lesser extent P. mugo. Read articles on these two species, with a focus on the calendar of techniques used on P. sylvestris and more or less follow that schedule. But look at the markers for season mentioned, for example buds swelling, elongating, needle sheaths drying and falling off, and other markers mention in the timing of techniques articles. Then observe your P. nigra looking for clues from your tree in front of you as to what point in the growing cycle your tree is in.

I have a couple P. nigra, young-ish seedlings - in the north burbs of Chicago, they are strictly a single flush pine. Any pruning of buds, candles, shoots or branches only sets the stage for the following year's growth. For me these are a prune once a year tree, wire in winter, and repot only every 3rd year or so tree. The year you repot you don't do anything else to them until 12 months later. Picked them up originally to serve as understock for grafting other pines onto them. The ones I have left the grafts did not take. I've started to like them, and may head them more in the bonsai direction.
 
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