Pinus Nigra

Alex DeRuiter

Chumono
Messages
965
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
USDA Zone
5b
Hey everyone,

I don't have any pictures of the tree I purchased today as it's not really worth posting, but I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good link for growing/training Austrian pines.

I've been reading Brent's articles on the Evergreen Gardenworks website, but I don't know how similar Austian pines are to JBPs.

Any advice would be appreciated ;-D

For now, I'll continue searching for good information online and at the library.

Just for grits and shins, here's a picture I found of an Austian pine on AoB. Enjoy :D

 

treebeard55

Chumono
Messages
763
Reaction score
84
Location
north-central Indiana, USA
USDA Zone
5A
There's not that much out there on Austrian pines: I think they are regarded as second-best in many areas. (Whether they actually are second best is a separate question.)

I've been doing some experimenting with them in the last few years, since JBP is very marginally hardy in this area. I can overwinter my JBP with my other hardy trees and it will survive; but then it struggles all the next season. So I've been looking for a substitute that's easily available here, and fully hardy in zone 5b.

So far I've been treating them as JBP's that don't have the late-summer growth flush, and they've been responding pretty well.

For some knock-your-socks-off yamadori Austrians, check out Walter Pall's gallery: http://walter-pall.de/00gallery/index.html.
 
Messages
189
Reaction score
218
Location
Britanny, France
USDA Zone
9
Treebeard, would you have some pictures ?

I have a problem with JBP also. While JRP and Scots pine (mountain pines) thrive in the ground, JBP (low altitude with semi tropical summer pines) are really slow in my place (probably because I have either warm and dry summers or cold and rainy summers but never hot and rainy) so I wanted also to give a try to ABP.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
2,302
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
I'm curious since I have a Pinus nigra, what is the best time to work on them?
 

Alex DeRuiter

Chumono
Messages
965
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
USDA Zone
5b
Steve, thank you for your input and for the link to Walter's gallery.

Though they may indeed be a second best to the JBPs, I think it'll be a great subject for experimentation. :D

In regards to hardiness, the nursery owner and I were talking about JPBs as well and he said when they used to sell them they had a high mortality rate, so they stick with white pines and Scots pines mostly, but the Austrian ones were new to their inventory. We'll see how this pans out.

Ryan, from what I've read so far, the best time for work depends on what kind of work you're doing and what work preceded it. I know that's vague, but it gives you a general idea. They're nothing like deciduous apparently, so there are different times you can do different things and get different results.

I've been reading and rereading one of Brent's articles over the past two days and it seems like each time something "new" pops out at me.
 
Last edited:

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
2,302
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
Interesting. I've been searching the web to try to find when a good time to chop one would be, but so far no luck. I'll keep looking, thanks.
 

tanlu

Shohin
Messages
280
Reaction score
7
Location
Washington, DC
USDA Zone
7a
@ Axxonn, Colin Lewis has an article where he compares JBP with other two needle pines, which he terms as "regular pines" I believe Austrian Black Pines are also in this category. I would post the article, but it's PDF and takes up too much space.

I don't think they have any special requirements like JBP or JWP which are at the opposite ends of the pine spectrum. You should just read up on the fundamentals of growing healthy 2 needle pines (that's NOT JBP) for bonsai, and treat it accordingly. I visited a bonsai nursery in Virginia and they had several large specimen ABP. The owner said they actually have very little in common with JBP, and they're much slower growing. I think the name Austrian BLACK pine is misleading.
 

Alex DeRuiter

Chumono
Messages
965
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
USDA Zone
5b
Tanlu, would you be able to post a link to it or send it to my email? :)

I hope they're not slower than JBPs...I'm already 24 and I want to see this thing finished some day. lol

Ryan, as far as general chops go, I think late winter might be best...but don't quote me on that.
 

treebeard55

Chumono
Messages
763
Reaction score
84
Location
north-central Indiana, USA
USDA Zone
5A
I saw two pines today, in the display at the Mid-America Show, that I thought at first were Scots pines, Pinus sylvestris, from the needle size. Surprise! They're Austrian, Pinus nigra. I hope to run into the grower tomorrow and ask him how he got the needles to reduce that much; none of them are even 2 inches long!

Sorry, no pictures yet; that will have to wait until we get home.

I would do a major chop just as the tree broke dormancy. That way it would already be revving up its engine, so to speak, and would have the whole growing season to recover.

As for the name "European black pine," the bark is actually a dark charcoal gray. If I understand correctly, at a distance a stand of them can look almost black. (Somebody from Europe correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
Messages
189
Reaction score
218
Location
Britanny, France
USDA Zone
9
Well actually, I know only P. nigra ssp laricio which has been planted in my area since the 70's but I were to choose a name, I 'd call them silver pines rather than black pines ;)
 

treebeard55

Chumono
Messages
763
Reaction score
84
Location
north-central Indiana, USA
USDA Zone
5A
Thanks for commenting, Alain.

Here's a picture of one of those Austrians, and another of the JBP that was right beside it. The height and spread of the two trees is almost identical, tho the JBP is more robust. Notice the needle size of the two trees!

I never did get a chance to ask the grower his secret.
 

Attachments

  • BN MBS '11 Austrian pine.jpg
    BN MBS '11 Austrian pine.jpg
    186.2 KB · Views: 72
  • BN MBS '11 JBP.jpg
    BN MBS '11 JBP.jpg
    189 KB · Views: 63

Alex DeRuiter

Chumono
Messages
965
Reaction score
7
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
USDA Zone
5b
I wonder if his secret is where he prunes. In one of Brent's pine articles he states, "Pruning candles back to the node will always produce mature, typical wood. That is what I like about this technique. You can rely upon the response to produce fairly short needles with strong nodal response, that is, there will a strong node at the base of the candle and at its tip (the following season)."

Then again, it might be something else in addition to this technique. Perhaps it's also something with feeding the tree more or less at certain times of the year?

Either way, thank you for posting those trees!
 
Messages
189
Reaction score
218
Location
Britanny, France
USDA Zone
9
Thanks for the pics. ABP' s bark on the pic is lagging compared to those of the JBP but it may be to the JBP being older. Nevertheless, I feel that a JBP old enough to have the structure of the ABP presented would have a better bark.

Very good work anyway.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Japonicus Pinus nigra surviving needle cast Pines 9
A. Gorilla Pinus Nigra to be continued Pines 6
River's Edge Pinus Nigra Hornibrookianna Pines 107
Iceman Pinus Nigra design New to Bonsai 17
Hartinez HD Pinus Nigra Pines 16

Similar threads

Top