Pinus sylvestris nursery stock, style, work advice.

TCGreen

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Hi,

I got this the other day as I thought it would make a good first Pinus project.

Should I leave it and let it grow thicker more vigour etc?
Or
Style it and Bonsai it now? I'd like to do that. But, I'm unsure whether I should lose the main thick leader as the bottom branches are thinner and have nice spread.
Or leave the top branches and get rid of the lower thinner branches?
Or stick it in the ground and let it just go for it and come back to it at a later date?

Thanks in advance

Tc
 

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Wires_Guy_wires

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I would reduce branch sets originating from the same node to 2.
Then maybe wire it without removing anything more and see if you can work the branches this summer to get them to backbud closer to the trunk.
Repot in fall or next spring.
 

Tieball

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What I would do. Once those buds on the tree, on every branch, all of them, elongate and just begin to form new needles I would pinch off 2/3 to 3/4 of the elongation on every one of them. My experience has been strong back budding and more compactness overall....while still growing and thickening the trunk. I’d do this for several seasons. I would not cut branches off right now. I’d keep them to support thunk thickening. I think that the tree needs to grow more and develop more of a substantial appearance before approaching styling.

I think about what style direction I’d go in...research a lot on similar trees...and then change that direction quite often as new growth opportunities become direction possibilities. All without chopping anything off.....and growing the tree beyond the nursery pot appearance.
 

Bonsai Learner

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What I would do. Once those buds on the tree, on every branch, all of them, elongate and just begin to form new needles I would pinch off 2/3 to 3/4 of the elongation on every one of them. My experience has been strong back budding and more compactness overall....while still growing and thickening the trunk. I’d do this for several seasons. I would not cut branches off right now. I’d keep them to support thunk thickening. I think that the tree needs to grow more and develop more of a substantial appearance before approaching styling.

I think about what style direction I’d go in...research a lot on similar trees...and then change that direction quite often as new growth opportunities become direction possibilities. All without chopping anything off.....and growing the tree beyond the nursery pot appearance.
with so many branches from almost same spot, if not cutting some off now, would it be a big knuckle too difficult to handle in several years?
 

Tieball

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with so many branches from almost same spot, if not cutting some off now, would it be a big knuckle too difficult to handle in several years?
Yeah....you’re correct. If it happened, the swell, I would use the knuckle as an opportunity to carve out an interesting uro. But I agree with your observation and the knuckle could produce a swelling that resembles a reverse taper.
 

Japonicus

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Can you tell us when, it was last potted up?

If this year, leave it alone.
If last year, unfortunately I don't see good interior growth down low
within the first 2 whorls, but as @Wires_Guy_wires said removing down to 2
will reduce swelling at the whorls, and I would also pinch the candles as @Tieball
mentioned starting with the strongest ones 1st, and coming in 10 and 20 days later
pinching down the subsequent mid then low vigour candles. This helps balance energy.
Then in the Fall remove needles on the entire tree down to equal the amount of needles
on the weakest branch you are keeping. This will climax the energy balance.
Then assess drainage value. If it's good don't repot the following Spring continue pinching candles.
If drainage is slowing and you pot it up, don't pinch candles except for the wildest longest ones
to keep energy for recovery and root regeneration.
Now Ryan Neil goes for the thinning of needles 1st step here then candle cutting early Summer

I have not followed these instructions entirely to a tee, and do not have lopsided strength
but I have followed Bonsai Todays direction best I can grasp and either way works I'm sure
but your tree does need back budding so I would concentrate on learning that after taking care
of the whorls and thinning needles as Ryan says in that video 1st and feed it like a hungry wolf.

When was it potted up last?
 

Japonicus

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Oh and whatever you do, allow the apical leader free reign to thicken the trunk. Do not cut it!
This, in ground while keeping the lower portions trained is the best way to
thicken the trunk and develop the tree.
 

Tieball

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Can you tell us when, it was last potted up?

If this year, leave it alone.
If last year, unfortunately I don't see good interior growth down low
within the first 2 whorls, but as @Wires_Guy_wires said removing down to 2
will reduce swelling at the whorls, and I would also pinch the candles as @Tieball
mentioned starting with the strongest ones 1st, and coming in 10 and 20 days later
pinching down the subsequent mid then low vigour candles. This helps balance energy.
Then in the Fall remove needles on the entire tree down to equal the amount of needles
on the weakest branch you are keeping. This will climax the energy balance.
Then assess drainage value. If it's good don't repot the following Spring continue pinching candles.
If drainage is slowing and you pot it up, don't pinch candles except for the wildest longest ones
to keep energy for recovery and root regeneration.
Now Ryan Neil goes for the thinning of needles 1st step here then candle cutting early Summer

I have not followed these instructions entirely to a tee, and do not have lopsided strength
but I have followed Bonsai Todays direction best I can grasp and either way works I'm sure
but your tree does need back budding so I would concentrate on learning that after taking care
of the whorls and thinning needles as Ryan says in that video 1st and feed it like a hungry wolf.

When was it potted up last?
Well written up. Excellent advice. Mighty fine.
 

River's Edge

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Hi,

I got this the other day as I thought it would make a good first Pinus project.

Should I leave it and let it grow thicker more vigour etc?
Or
Style it and Bonsai it now? I'd like to do that. But, I'm unsure whether I should lose the main thick leader as the bottom branches are thinner and have nice spread.
Or leave the top branches and get rid of the lower thinner branches?
Or stick it in the ground and let it just go for it and come back to it at a later date?

Thanks in advance

Tc
First step
1. Determine if the trunk is the desired thickness or if it needs to be thickened up substantially.
2. Determine if the nebari need development, and when the tree was last repotted.
The two considerations above impact the beginning steps of any approach. Although many of the suggestions above contain good information, they are primarily connected with refinement steps, not development steps. cWhat you do next needs to be based on where you are at and where you want to go with the size and design. it is best if you provide that information first.
I note that you have not responded to any of the comments since posting. Do you have a question?
 

Paradox

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Can you tell us when, it was last potted up?

If this year, leave it alone.
If last year, unfortunately I don't see good interior growth down low
within the first 2 whorls, but as @Wires_Guy_wires said removing down to 2
will reduce swelling at the whorls, and I would also pinch the candles as @Tieball
mentioned starting with the strongest ones 1st, and coming in 10 and 20 days later
pinching down the subsequent mid then low vigour candles. This helps balance energy.
Then in the Fall remove needles on the entire tree down to equal the amount of needles
on the weakest branch you are keeping. This will climax the energy balance.
Then assess drainage value. If it's good don't repot the following Spring continue pinching candles.
If drainage is slowing and you pot it up, don't pinch candles except for the wildest longest ones
to keep energy for recovery and root regeneration.
Now Ryan Neil goes for the thinning of needles 1st step here then candle cutting early Summer

I have not followed these instructions entirely to a tee, and do not have lopsided strength
but I have followed Bonsai Todays direction best I can grasp and either way works I'm sure
but your tree does need back budding so I would concentrate on learning that after taking care
of the whorls and thinning needles as Ryan says in that video 1st and feed it like a hungry wolf.

When was it potted up last?

The video is great but the problem is that the tree that is posted in the first post is a Scots Pine, not a Japanese Black or Red Pine.
A scots pine SHOULD NOT be treated the same as a JBP or JRP.

These videos talk more about scots pine

 

Japonicus

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The video is great but the problem is that the tree that is posted in the first post is a Scots Pine, not a Japanese Black or Red Pine.
A scots pine SHOULD NOT be treated the same as a JBP or JRP.

These videos talk more about scots pine

You're right thanks for following through with that and correct videos.
 
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