Planning ahead for the future....

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I know I am not alone in planning ahead for the future, not only for myself, but for my daughters as well.

Of course, I am talking about stock. ;)

Most people who know me know that I have hundreds of pines growing in a field up north at my cabin, none are anything special yet, but in another few years I might pull some decent Shohin stock out of it and when my daughters reach my age, they will have some great material, hopefully.

Vance Wood introduced me to the wonderful world of vending at shows a few years back. Since that time we have bought hundreds of young Black Pines and Scots Pines for resale. These are younger trees, never having been worked on. many of these sell right away, those that do not sell the first year are given a preliminary styling and sold the next year at a slightly higher price, as so on.....

However, I always keep a percentage of the trees, hack some down, wire others, put others into the ground, or a combination of these things. These are for the future.

This size is the perfect size for bending future literati, cascade, and informal upright styles. Many will go back in the ground for growth, some, such as some literati will stay in pots. None are, of course, anything to brag about, just base shapes with a future in mind, maybe 10 years or more out. It's like playing chess, know your next moves in advance and follow them.

In another thread I promised to show some of this base styling on some of these young trees. Later tonight I will post some here. All critiques can wait a decade. ;)



Will
 
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So, base styling on raw, young trees. The key is making a decision, good or bad, the first decision must always be made.

First set a pile of trees down in front of you.

Tip, only set a few down at a time, bringing them all over can overwhelm you. ;)

Excuse the obvious backyard chaos, the pool is in, but the concrete has yet to be poured for ther patios.
 

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A quick sorting will reveal what can be wired now and what should be chopped. Great lower budding can call for a chop, as can whorls that swelled too much.
 

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When in doubt, chop. ;)
 

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The chops go in the ground.


Then, keeping in mind resale, you let your mind run free.
 

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Do what feels right, do it once, this is just the first base styling to add movement, to define the future shape. Adjustments can be made on future stylings.
 

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Some go in the ground, some go to the shows, some stay in pots.....you're the one who decides.


A few years later and you'll have something to begin work on.


(Shhhh, don't tell Al)
 

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Bill S

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Good reminder about Bonsai on the Cheap( Vances term I think) Will. It will reduce the odds on getting the "perfect" tree to work out a masterpiece, but if you don't have acres to plant out, even a small sunny corner of your yard can produce good "prebonsai" for your future. Imagination should be our only detractor to this process, maybe age too.
 

ml_work

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Will, Thanks for the info and pictures. This is interesting and helpful. Even if I do not plant any trees here on my property I have access to some more land with pines in the wild. They are not JBP so I don't think they will back bud after a cut. They are in sandy soil and easy to dig, I may try some of what you have explained on a few.
The tree you did the chop....when you chop ...you chop!
Have A Great Day!
Michael
 

Smoke

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Some go in the ground, some go to the shows, some stay in pots.....you're the one who decides.


A few years later and you'll have something to begin work on.


(Shhhh, don't tell Al)

I wish BT was still up so you could sift thru the archives and read almost verbatum from Ripsgreentree what you have said here. Like Rips always said of his material..I grow material, it is up to the artist to make something great with it.

I used to tell him yea, thats what someone growing material like you grow will say when they have no clue about how to make a bonsai in the first place. If they did they will be a grower like Jim Gremel who can grow and make great bonsai. He grows great bonsai because he knows what great material is supposed to look like.

As I look at the middle picture in post 6 I am reminded of a table of Chinese mallsai. Do you go out of your way to get the most unnatural bends possible?

Thats OK at least your trying....Donkey Bop!
 
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I wish BT was still up so you could sift thru the archives and read almost verbatum from Ripsgreentree what you have said here. Like Rips always said of his material..I grow material, it is up to the artist to make something great with it.

I used to tell him yea, thats what someone growing material like you grow will say when they have no clue about how to make a bonsai in the first place. If they did they will be a grower like Jim Gremel who can grow and make great bonsai. He grows great bonsai because he knows what great material is supposed to look like.

As I look at the middle picture in post 6 I am reminded of a table of Chinese mallsai. Do you go out of your way to get the most unnatural bends possible?

Thats OK at least your trying....Donkey Bop!

Ah, lookie, here Al is trying to incite a flame war again. Just ignore him, maybe he'll trip on his own tongue. Lol.

Al, your opinion means nothing to me, you're sort of like a gnat, does no harm, just a little annoying at times. Your words above are so arsine that they are actually hardly worth responding to, but let's take a look at what the great Al Keppler the Internet Master, knows....

Do you go out of your way to get the most unnatural bends possible?
Why yes I do and if you actually styled any bonsai yourself, you'd know that you always over exaggerate bends and turns, especially when the tree will be grown out.

Now run along and find another thread I am active in to disrupt. You're nothing but predictable.


Will
 
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Smoke

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Why yes I do and if you actually styled any bonsai yourself,Will

Do you really want to go down that road again? We've already established you can't do bonsai. You really wish to start growing bonsai? Come on thats more preposterous than you making them.


you'd know that you always over exsargerrate bends and turns, especially when the tree will be grown out.

Will

Just what word did you mean here..

regurgatate? exacerbate? excruciate? excoriate? any of those would work with these trees. Come on you braggart Editor buy a dictionary.

The gloves are off kid, You have opened Pandora's box and I will haunt your every post till you get it right...if thats possible. You can twist and turn those words all you want but you are on the ropes screaming, No mas No mas.

Obviously you have not put me on ignore yet. What you afraid you might miss actually learning something? Rave on lunatic.

Edit; as far as your link to the longest thread about nothing, considering the two of us I am a bonsai master compared to you.
 
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Do you really want to go down that road again? We've already established you can't do bonsai. You really wish to start growing bonsai? Come on thats more preposterous than you making them.
No, we established nothing, you imagine a lot. I have posted progressions, bonsai, and even young pre-bonsai for the ground. I have posted companion plantings, and I have entered the AoB contests. I have won a handful of ribbons for my efforts, one by Valavanis, and I have been told by far better bonsaists than yourself that I have a good eye.You're the only one who fails to see this, perhaps you think by repeating it enough, it will come true?



Just what word did you mean here..

regurgatate? exacerbate? excruciate? excoriate? any of those would work with these trees. Come on you braggart Editor buy a dictionary.
Huh?

You're telling me to buy a dictionary and calling me a braggart, oh, that's rich, lmao.

The gloves are off kid, You have opened Pandora's box and I will haunt your every post ....
So just the same old, same old, huh? Big deal, you have never hurt me, stopped me, or even slowed me down. You whined when my very first article was published, then you whined about AoB, then you whined about KoB, sometimes I think you whine too much.

As others have told you, if you spent as much time worrying about your own bonsai as you do mine, you'd move out of the rut you're in and maybe really create something that would place higher than "the top thirty."

You can twist and turn those words all you want but you are on the ropes screaming, No mas No mas.
My you have an active imagination. You just keep telling yourself that, maybe even you will believe the lie eventually.

Obviously you have not put me on ignore yet.

Not yet.....

Hey, by the way, does this mean you won't be buying my book that will be printed this fall? Damn, and I was going to sign it for you even. ;)


Goodnight Al,



Will
 
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Smoke

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Hey, by the way, does this mean you won't be buying my book that will be printed this fall? Damn, and I was going to sign it for you even. ;)


Goodnight Al,

Will

Probably not, Most of my beginner books have been donated to my club for the newbies to use.

Hey, maybe you could donate half a dozen for my club to give away for the bonsai basics class. Of course they will probaly show up next month on the raffle table, but hey got another notch in your resume belt.

I can give you the names of half a dozen guys in LA with a few dozen boxes of books in their garage they couldn't give away. How many did you have to buy? Too bad Billy Mays died he could probably even sell one of your books! I think Ron Popeil is still alive. Hey he could throw it in with a George Forman grill!
Man, I know what the runners up are going to get at the world famous AoB contests. That was a slick way to raise the bar though. You will get the best artists competeing for first so no one will have to get stuck with the booby prize of one of Will's beginner books. I hope your soliciting for pictures in this book, you won't jeopardize your reputation by usuing photo's of your own trees, or maybe you would, you think their pretty great. Do use the windswept stick though, that is classic Heath.

If you need a couple good west coast pictures of great trees look me up. I won't be holding my breath though...
 
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Just like you Al, judging a book before you even read it. The sad part is that this is exactly what you are all about, it's not about the book, the bonsai, the contests, the projects, it's just about me and your personal bias.

That just about says it all,


Will
 

Smoke

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Just like you Al, judging a book before you even read it. The sad part is that this is exactly what you are all about, it's not about the book, the bonsai, the contests, the projects, it's just about me and your personal bias.

That just about says it all,


Will

no. I can judge a book by it's cover and in this case we are dealing with a self admitted plagerist, a liar and a cheater. You have shown absolutely no good reason why I would want to buy a book from you. You have never posted one decent tree in the entire life of internet discussion. You progressions show absolutely no growth in atistic arbility, and frankly your views on bonsai are very skewed.

You may be right, I think it is very personal. You give real bonsai a bad name and frankly you are nothing to the communnity. You think you are but no, your not.
 

TpaBayFlyFisher

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Fly stands and slowly claps for two idiots mock-fighting for our entertainment. I do not know when nor why this cyber-fight started, I just love it! The rest of us are simply tired of reading thoughtful posts anyway.
 

FrankP999

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Will and Smoke,
Do you guys think your flame wars enhance this web site or contribute to bonsai knowledge? I sure don't. I wish you guys would take your fight to private messages or some other forum.

Frank
 

greerhw

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As a gentleman who would never stoop so low as to call out someone on a civilized forum board devoted to the hobby of bonsai, I am appalled at the recent rude and condesending remarks of two esteemed posters such as yourselves. I can't believe behavior of this nature is allowed here. I'm not sure I can take much more of this, I may have to ask for my money back and go elsewhere for my bonsai experience.

Oh what to do, what to do....
Harry Greer Esq.
 

Smoke

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Will and Smoke,
Do you guys think your flame wars enhance this web site or contribute to bonsai knowledge? I sure don't. I wish you guys would take your fight to private messages or some other forum.

Frank

Trust me if there were no flame wars there would be nothing to read. I guarentee that the only reason many come here is to read what rude and crappy remarks someone has said about someone else.

Look at who's online from time to time and see what everyone is looking at.

I repect John Romano with all my heart but every time I shop here he is looking at all the heated threads. It's just like a train wreck, you want to drive right by but you can't help yourself.

I've been told that the best the internet has to offer can be found at AoB and Knob. I suggest checking out those sights since the moderator there rules with an iron fist and would never allow this type of behavior:rolleyes:
 

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