Planning for Scots Pine

CrisisM0de

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Hello,

I posted about this tree a couple days ago, but I have done a ton of reading since then and I wanted to make a post that is - hopefully - more thoughtful and educated. Anyway, I picked up this pine and was not sure what to do with it and was feeling pretty aimless. I think I have a plan for it today, but I do not know if its feasible or if the tree is even worth the effort. So, hopefully I can get some feedback on my plan and to discuss whether or not that plan is viable.

My understanding is that my bonsai is going to come from the bottom of this tree as seen in the second picture. To balance vigor and steer some growth toward the bottom of the tree, I need to remove needles from the blue areas I scribbled over and cut the branches off at the red lines. This will leave the tops to act as sacrificial branches over the next several years until I chop them near the spots that I noted in the second picture. I know that it will look very different in the following years, but as there are no branches in the middle... the general chopping spot will still be somewhere in that area. I have read I can needle pluck at the end of summer and into autumn and I think the tree can probably handle the removal of the extra branches? I would also think that I can wire these bottom branches and wire the trunks to guide them into the directions I indicated with the green arrows.

Thanks again!

edited.jpgedited2.jpga1.jpg
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I have no advice to give, but I do have examples!
IMG_20200730_173130.jpg
One year after chopping back.

IMG_20200730_173155.jpg
Another one, a year after chopping back.

I decided to just go ahead and make new sacrifice branches in the future because the lower branches were too weak compared to the apex.
It's a decision I made after seeing some other scots pines drop their low branches in favor of a strong apex.
Not a popular choice, but in my case it was either chopping or dropping.
 

CrisisM0de

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I decided to just go ahead and make new sacrifice branches in the future because the lower branches were too weak compared to the apex.
It's a decision I made after seeing some other scots pines drop their low branches in favor of a strong apex.
Not a popular choice, but in my case it was either chopping or dropping.
They are looking great after just a year! It appears your trunks are close in diameter to mine... the apex is also much stronger on my tree than the bottom. Perhaps I should just chop like you did then and not bother with all the needle plucking and so on. I am not sure if there are two trees in this pot or its one tree that split further down. There is a bag around the roots and I can't dig down very far.

Do you mean that you plan to use a newly grown branch as the new sacrifice later on? And this can be any branch? I am assuming the cut site will never grow anything again on pine?
 

sorce

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I reckon this material is faster making the whole length of the 2 trunks into a tall thin Mother Daughter Combo.

If the was ONE good upward pointing shoot below, I may have a different opinion.

Sorce
 

CrisisM0de

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I reckon this material is faster making the whole length of the 2 trunks into a tall thin Mother Daughter Combo.

If the was ONE good upward pointing shoot below, I may have a different opinion.

Sorce
Does that mean maybe it isn't worth bothering with? Won't I be able to wire one of the low branches upward in a couple years to act as a new leader?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Do you mean that you plan to use a newly grown branch as the new sacrifice later on? And this can be any branch? I am assuming the cut site will never grow anything again on pine?
Yes, I plan on using a new branch that will form over time. This is going to be a branch that I can easily hide, so it'll probably be the least interesting one. Either a low hanging one that could be nice deadwood or otherwise just a new apex. The cut site can heal over a bit, but the bigger the cut, the longer it'll take.
I left soms stubs on mine, because I wasn't sure how much dieback I could expect. So I'm planning on reducing them further next year.
 

sorce

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Does that mean maybe it isn't worth bothering with? Won't I be able to wire one of the low branches upward in a couple years to act as a new leader?
I've never seen anything with such a drastic 90 then swooping bend grow into anything visually pleasing.

I have seen many trees with a shoot that grows naturally into a nice new leader position.

Sorce
 

CrisisM0de

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I've never seen anything with such a drastic 90 then swooping bend grow into anything visually pleasing.

I have seen many trees with a shoot that grows naturally into a nice new leader position.

Sorce
Sorry, I am learning. If I chop low above the new, small branches, than won't the rest be easier to change and grow into the shape and direction that I desire? Either way, is it possible for you to explain the 'why' this is the case. Thank you, sorry for my ignorance I am just trying to learn as much as possible. Couldn't I also turn the thinner trunk into a jin sometime down the road?
 

sorce

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No need to be sorry!

Number one...you can ALWAYS do whatever you like!

Everything grows and heals at different rates, so every possible chop, can end up looking completely different. So nothing is off the table.

It is merely my opinion, that a branch coming off at a 90degree angle and bent up as a new leader is ugly. I reckon very rare instances will ever take on a look where you can't tell that's what happened. The idea of this thing is to not show the hand of Man. So things like that should be avoided.

Sure, many people may come and say, "I've done that and it came out fine" but don't show pictures, and even if they do who has a heart to tell them it's ugly? I won't, let them like what they like!

I think the most important thing to remember as a new, is that this won't be your last tree. So there is no need to try to fit it into an outline that is more difficult than another outline.

If a practitioner has 100 trees, each well suited to a particular style, say a double trunk sexy thing like yours....but they like only cascade styles, it would make more sense for the practitioner to trade his 100 trees for 100 trees more suited to a Cascade style.

A tree well suited to a particular style will reach that style faster.

Of course, the stubborn practitioner, can say they like the aesthetics brought about by converting sexy double trunk material into cascade material, as it will be completely different.

A foolish practitioner fails to see this.

Don't let me be the fool in your pursuit!

Though, why not the fast tree?

Sorce
 

CrisisM0de

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This is what I saw last night that made me think I should attempt the same as the tree looks similar to my own. I know this definitely isn't the fastest route, but it's the only one I am understanding so far haha

6-year-old-black-pine-1-564x564.jpg
 

sorce

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The key aesthetic difference is this has a bend first, then a 90. This is much more easy to "hide". Ends up more fluid, seamless. The cut can be moved to the back, where as your cut will always be on top.

On top, it only can be hidden behind, when the new leader is as thick, that doesn't happen till you ruin your taper.

Sorce
 
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