Plant Growth Regulators

[Jzack605]

Curious if anyone has experimented with them on bonsai. I’ve used cambistat for treatments on landscape trees, but not sure how it would translate to small scale of bonsai. Primarily curious with shortening internodes of a Kousa Dogwood I have which is an attribute of a PGR application.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I've seen ads for plant growth regulators (PGRs) when we owned the farm. Honestly I have not delved into how they work and whether the results would be predictable. One of the issues is how would a species not specifically tested with the growth regulator respond? If it was tested on azalea, how would it affect cotoneaster?

Also consider that in order to style bonsai, you actually need growth. One of the down sides of using miniature conifers for bonsai is that some do not grow enough to allow styling in a normal person's lifetime. If the PGRs slowed growth too much, there is the lengthening of time between styling efforts.

And how long does it take to flush these PGRs out of the plant's system. For example, if you sprayed an azalea, how long will it take to return to normal growth?

So while the idea is interesting, I have no idea how it would work.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have experimented with them a lot.
I still use them for minor things, but most of the times there are more solid methods with more predictable results.

PGR's are fun, but responses differ greatly from cultivar to cultivar.
In other words: if you're not prepared to sacrifice a bunch of plants, then you'll have to hope for literature, if there is none and you don't want sacrifices.. Then it's better not to use them.

 

[thams]

I've heard of using them for chrysanthemum bonsai since growth tends to be very strong and sometimes leggy. Getting tight internodes can be challenging, so growth inhibitors keeps the structure tight. I haven't used growth inhibitors personally, but I plan to try it out when I get my hands on chrysanthemum cuttings.

 

[Jzack605]

Curious how they figure out the rates for chrysanthemum. With the product I am used to, you measure the DBH and refer to the chart based on that and species for the rate. I’m not sure how small that gets when you get to the bonsai scale though, and would be surprised if the charts went below 4” DBH which may work for some but not all.

 

[just.wing.it]

I just use my scissors.

 

[penumbra]

I just use my scissors.

Technically, its a plant growth regulator. I'm all in.

 

[cornfed]

I think you would want to reduce Gibberellin in the plant.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Typically PGR will last around 1-2 months on a LAWN. but not sure on trees.

I will volunteer to test this out.

I have PGR that I use on my Lawn. This week I'm planning to apply it to my lawn and will test it to some of my Juniper.

I will give you guys update soon

 

[Dav4]

I just use my scissors.

It's literally that simple!!

 

[penumbra]

Typically PGR will last around 1-2 months on a LAWN. but not sure on trees.

I will volunteer to test this out.

I have PGR that I use on my Lawn. This week I'm planning to apply it to my lawn and will test it to some of my Juniper.

I will give you guys update soon

Experiments are important but I would use extra caution here. A PGR for a lawn would be formulated to have an effect on monocots. To my knowledge the only monocot used in bonsai is bamboo. Physiology is vastly difference as in the example of 2-4-D which has little to no effect on monocots but is deadly to dicots.

 

[cornfed]

I've heard of two products used in the nursery industry to antagonize gibberellins (which are responsible for node elongation among other things).

They are Cyocel and Paclobutrazol and both cost a little too much for me to experiment with now... But they have history in the nursing industry so there must exist dosing instructions somewhere.

Here is some more info that I haven't fully read yet but am working through because I find this interesting.

 

[sorce]

I was telling my kids about Radium yesterday!

When is the last time anything like this was found, and remained beneficial?

Your neighbor's kids' kid's are going to have Orca flippers, the nose of a softshell turtle, and the appetite of a Japanese Beetle....

So who the hell will be left to enjoy the art of the bonsai?

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

Radium

But the way it makes a lady's lips glow....mmm mmmm.

 

[penumbra]

I was telling my kids about Radium yesterday!

When is the last time anything like this was found, and remained beneficial?

Your neighbor's kids' kid's are going to have Orca flippers, the nose of a softshell turtle, and the appetite of a Japanese Beetle....

So who the hell will be left to enjoy the art of the bonsai?

Sorce

You are so offbeat Sorce.
Sometimes I have to decode what you are saying but this is pretty clear ..... at least to me.

 

[just.wing.it]

You are so offbeat Sorce.
Sometimes I have to decode what you are saying but this is pretty clear ..... at least to me.

You're progressing in your Sorce-eze language skills and comprehension. ...well done sir!
Lol!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Typically PGR will last around 1-2 months on a LAWN. but not sure on trees.

I will volunteer to test this out.

I have PGR that I use on my Lawn. This week I'm planning to apply it to my lawn and will test it to some of my Juniper.

I will give you guys update soon

11 years of stunted dwarf growth is my record. And still counting by the way. Giberillins don't mess around.

 

[cornfed]

I 100% get what you're saying, Sorce. But I believe there is a place for experimentation alongside all-natural bonsai. You're right about checking the labels of chemicals you plan to use though.

For the record, I haven't used any of these products and as such cannot have an opinion on if they are beneficial or not. But I do find that question very interesting. Especially since there is a 50-year history of them being applied to ornamental trees and trees in urban trees and under electric wires. This article from Purdue University Extension speaks about the latter.

The main goal is antagonizing those gibberellins... if only there was a natural way to do it like there is with Auxin! And maybe there is! We need some experimentation!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

The main goal is antagonizing those gibberellins... if only there was a natural way to do it like there is with Auxin! And maybe there is! We need some experimentation!

As with most hormones, an overdose will render the plant insensitive to it.

Google search for 'The round-up ready coca' or something like that. The US spraying herbicides all over Colombia has left the Colombians with herbicide-proof coca plants.
As someone who has been fooling around with Colombian coca plants, I can safely say that they do not at all behave the same as samples collected from far away plant libraries. They do not respond to any known auxin - and I've tried over 400 different recipes - while the ones that were stored elsewhere can be multiplied easily through cuttings. The worst part is that it's genetically transferred, meaning I can't cross out this resistance to auxins.
In practical terms, this means that if I want to keep these relatively short-lived plants for the rest of my life, I have to produce seeds. Meaning I have to get an artists pencil and manually pollinate every single flower hoping for success.
They have a 1 in 200 pollination rate and flowers last about a day or two, so I can effectively produce 10 seeds a year if I'm lucky.