Plant ID please

[Poink88]

This is supposedly a Korean Hornbeam but I am starting to doubt it...can anyone help ID this?

Thank you.

 

[Eric Group]

Looks like Hornbeam to me! Not sure the type... Have you seen it in fall color yet? I think most the true Korean ones get VIOLENTLY RED in the Fall... Supposedly a distinguishing characteristic according one thing I read. Let me try to find the link for you...

 

[coh]

European hornbeam, perhaps? I have both Korean and European and the European has larger leaves (but not this large - is this a yard tree or nursery tree?). I'll have to look at mine tomorrow.

By the way, my Korean hornbeam doesn't turn "violently red" in the fall - more of an orange/brown (i.e. "dirty") red. It's very nice but not a bright red like some Japanese maples, sweetgum, Chinese quince, etc.

Chris

 

[Eric Group]

Here are some pics that are supposed to be legit Korean Hornbeam seedlings... Not sure if this helps

http://kaedebonsai.com/shop/mikawa-japanese-black-pine-2-12-pot/

A pretty popular site around here, I am sure you have seen it before.

Probably not important to get too hung up on the exactly kind of Hornbeam is it? If it is a cool looking tree and you like it who cares if it is Korean, American, European... JMO

 

[Poink88]

I have another KH and the leaves are half these and new growth are not as "red". (Correction) I didn't see the fall color I expected and one of the reason I am doubting.

It is a bummer if it is not KH since I really like KH fall color...the main reason I bought it actually.

 

[Eric Group]

I have another KH and the leaves are half these and new growth are not as "red". (Correction) I didn't see the fall color I expected and one of the reason I am doubting.

It is a bummer if it is not KH since I really like KH fall color...the main reason I bought it actually.

Well, if you bought it specifically for the color, then I see your dilemma. Where did you get it?

 

[Eric Group]

European hornbeam, perhaps? I have both Korean and European and the European has larger leaves (but not this large - is this a yard tree or nursery tree?). I'll have to look at mine tomorrow.

By the way, my Korean hornbeam doesn't turn "violently red" in the fall - more of an orange/brown (i.e. "dirty") red. It's very nice but not a bright red like some Japanese maples, sweetgum, Chinese quince, etc.

Chris

Again, just going off what I have read/ seen pics of. The ones in the link look pretty violent to me! LOL

I only own one American Hornbeam (I think that is what it is), so I cannot speak from experience, but I have been thinking of buying one of his I t he 4" pots- might be nice to have a baby one to work on. Do they bulk up pretty fast, or is it a 30 year project just to put on 1 inch of trunk?

 

[Poink88]

Well, if you bought it specifically for the color, then I see your dilemma. Where did you get it?

Here.....

 

[Poink88]

Again, just going off what I have read/ seen pics of. The ones in the link look pretty violent to me! LOL

I only own one American Hornbeam (I think that is what it is), so I cannot speak from experience, but I have been thinking of buying one of his I t he 4" pots- might be nice to have a baby one to work on. Do they bulk up pretty fast, or is it a 30 year project just to put on 1 inch of trunk?

My understanding is it is very slow. I've seen Kaede-bonsai's KH on eBay and was tempted to get some but they are really seedlings. Maybe I should and try to use them as scion donor for grafting.

 

[coh]

Again, just going off what I have read/ seen pics of. The ones in the link look pretty violent to me! LOL

I only own one American Hornbeam (I think that is what it is), so I cannot speak from experience, but I have been thinking of buying one of his I t he 4" pots- might be nice to have a baby one to work on. Do they bulk up pretty fast, or is it a 30 year project just to put on 1 inch of trunk?

Those pics look redder than the ones I've got (and some of mine are from Matt). I'm sure there are variations due to the fact that the plants are seedlings (genetic variation), plus the usual variations due to climate, fertilizing, etc. Plus his camera may be more tuned to red, lots of possibilities. I do know that there are 2 types of "Korean" hornbeam...one (C. turk-something) has yellow fall color and the other (the type Matt sells) is more red/orange/brown.

As for growth rate...I haven't been at this long enough to really be able to say. I've got one that's been in the ground for about 3 years (that one came from Brent W) and the growth rate has not been impressive.

Chris

 

[Poink88]

...Plus his camera may be more tuned to red, lots of possibilities...

Chris, From my monitor, the colors are spot on.

 

[RKatzin]

This looks like Carpinus coreana, Korean Hornbeam, the C. turczaninowii (turk san in now e i ei o) has very distinct bronzy spring foliage. Japanese Hornbeam looks almost the same, but the leaves are longer and narrow. All have varying shades of yellow/orange depending on how the fall goes. I had all three, but my turcs never leafed out this spring. I'm looking to replace, they are by far my favorites. In the spring they look like a bronze tree. Rick

 

[GrimLore]

By leaf size and shape I would lean towards that being an American Hornbeam. These two pictures are of a Korean Hornbeam here and the largest leaf on it is 1 1/4 inch long and far more slender.



Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

This looks like Carpinus coreana, Korean Hornbeam, the C. turczaninowii (turk san in now e i ei o) has very distinct bronzy spring foliage. Japanese Hornbeam looks almost the same, but the leaves are longer and narrow. All have varying shades of yellow/orange depending on how the fall goes. I had all three, but my turcs never leafed out this spring. I'm looking to replace, they are by far my favorites. In the spring they look like a bronze tree. Rick

Thanks. This gives me hope... but I am still doubtful.

 

[Poink88]

By leaf size and shape I would lean towards that being an American Hornbeam. These two pictures are of a Korean Hornbeam here and the largest leaf on it is 1 1/4 inch long and far more slender.

Thanks Grimmy. My other KH leaves are about 2" and the internodes are nowhere this long.

I am not ruling out the possibility that this is not even a hornbeam. Is there something I can check to be certain?

 

[Dav4]

Michael Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants" is an awesome source of info for all things related to trees. He usually describes the species morphology in detail and will mention important similarities and differences between closely related species. If you can get your hands on one, I bet you'll be able to figure it out. For people who love trees, I think this text is a "must have".

 

[RKatzin]

I see that Grimmy. I was looking more at the bronzy tips. I have them in container and in the garden and they'll put on a good leaf in the ground, especially on the new spring shoots. I think, I don't have Am. Hornbeam to look at, but from the pics I've seen the Korean leaf has deeper furrows remaining in older leaves and the American seems to washout as they age.

 

[Poink88]

Michael Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants" is an awesome source of info for all things related to trees. He usually describes the species morphology in detail and will mention important similarities and differences between closely related species. If you can get your hands on one, I bet you'll be able to figure it out. For people who love trees, I think this text is a "must have".

Thanks Dave. JKL have mentioned this book several times before but I never acquired one yet. High time I should.

Edit. Just purchased one through eBay.

 

[RKatzin]

Thanks Dave, sounds like a great book. I'll have to get my hands on that one!

 

[lordy]

In an effort to give you some sort of comparison, this is what I believe to be a Japanese Hornbeam. The wooden box is built of 1x2 for reference. Some of the leaves in this pic are not all that different from what you show. All my KHs are much smaller leaved, and the branching is naturally angular and ramifies easily, which the JH does not. Hope this helps.