Please advise on organic fert

[Rivian]

I am not good at ferts, its 50% using what I happen to have and 50% forgetting to do it at all.
I used Saidung organic fert pellets for a bit but ran out.
I like the pellet form but I suppose its not that important.

I am looking for a good solid organic fert with ok price

I want to sort of follow Peter Warrens advise for my maples and use mostly inorganic soil, a bit of bark mixed in and use organic fert. Most of my maples have some kind of issue right now. Some chlorosis on beni tsukasa, some retarded growth on little princess.
Should I use biogold, kelp, bone, blood, fish meal?
I saw 5kg biogold for 80 euros, is that good or bad? Is kelp better for JM?

 

[Shibui]

Kelp does not usually have reliable or consistent levels of NPK or micro nutrients. Down here it cannot be marketed as a fertilizer because of the variable levels. it can be useful, just don't use it as primary nutrient source.
Bone and blood meal are not complete fertilizers either. Both have some but not all nutrients that plants need. In the old days when these were all that was available gardeners knew which had what and therefore which to mix or alternate with to give a full coverage of all the vital nutrients that were not available in their soils.
Potting soils tend to have no backup nutrients or very little so any fert that lacks any major or minor nutrient will soon leave the plant with deficiency. You can learn all about all the nutrients and then check analysis of each product and then work out which to mix to give a full spectrum - science degree?? OR let someone else who knows what they are doing work it out and buy a COMPLETE (AKA 'balanced' ) fertilizer.

Biogold is just one of the complete fertilizers. Not available down here so I have not used that one but should have everything your plants need.

Cheap may be good on the pocket but when it doesn't have everything your plant needs growth will be poor. How good is cheap then?
Making wild guesses about what may be a good fert is playing Russian roulette with your trees.
Not using fert because you can't make a decision is no good for trees too.
None of my trees can read the packets. All they are interested in are nutrients and all complete fertilizers have nutrients. Doesn't matter whether they are organic or from a factory, they all have the nutrients your plants need.

 

[a1dusty]

I use bio gold as a slow real ease for 99% of my trees for last two yrs , I add a booster sometimes (miracle grow ) to aid some I am growing on , I tried the fish/bone meal for couple of yrs , hmmm not the best , I tried liquid balanced seaweed feed and found that even though it’s a very time consuming fertiliser it was definitely on a par with bio and a lot cheaper , so if you don’t mind the harder work and money is tight then I would get the balanced seaweed fertiliser

 

[rockm]

If you're after the "organic" myth, BioGold is the way to go. I use it WITH "chemical" ferts such as Peter's and Miracle Grow.

All of this depends on WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO with the tree being fertilized. There are tradeoffs for both organic and "chemical" (for lack of a better term, this one implies that they're somehow "bad" which is a silly way of thinking). If you're trying to develop a tree using only "organic" ferts, you will have very very slow going. If you're using organic ferts with inorganic soil, you're probably a masochist . The whole point of using organic ferts is to get them into the soil to decompose slowly--they aren't "useable" for plants until that organic breakdown occurs. That breakdown depends on soil organisms. With no organic compound in the soil, the process takes longer and is more dilute-since most of the stuff runs out the bottom of your pot with the relative flood of water necessary with inorganic soils...

 

[Rivian]

Its not about chemicals being magically bad, I just want to see if feeding the soil organisms instead of the tree directly improves some plant health issues. There'll still be 5-35% bark for things to feed on, for acidity and water holding capacity.

Maybe I'll try a side by side comparison with different ferts and identical soil, I do have a lot of cuttings (clones) right now and it might save me decades of headaches.

 

[Leprous Garden]

Even with organics in your substrate it's still not much like a garden soil. The extreme drainage of bonsai soils makes for a relatively poor environment for soil microbes - same reason why the organic ferts will be less effective.

In garden soil, microbes are important because they provide the soil with nutrients by helping the decomposition process. What is the goal of promoting microbes in your bonsai substrate? If the goal is to fertilize the plants a synthetic fert is going to be more effective.

 

[Rivian]

The extreme drainage of bonsai soils makes for a relatively poor environment for soil microbes

Why?
Also its about having the right ones, not just any. I do hope phytophtora feels unwelcome
We get a lot of rain outside the growing season and Ive lost jms to rot and leaf issues before
It made sense to me how Peter Warren explained it
I think the 'its got all the npk fe mg etc. in the right dosage therefore its ideal' approach is like telling a human to eat 2000 kcal worth of high fructose corn syrup, 50g of protein powder, vitamin supplements and so on and expecting ideal health
Soil microbes can produce beneficial or harmful compounds for the plant and help or suppress each other. Some even enter the plant, even beneficial ones. To me its very logical that they matter
Im sure in many cases people can get away with inorganic fert for a lifetime, depending on many factors. But if there are issues this is something obvious to try out.

 

[Colorado]

I am not good at ferts, its 50% using what I happen to have and 50% forgetting to do it at all.
I used Saidung organic fert pellets for a bit but ran out.
I like the pellet form but I suppose its not that important.

I am looking for a good solid organic fert with ok price

I want to sort of follow Peter Warrens advise for my maples and use mostly inorganic soil, a bit of bark mixed in and use organic fert. Most of my maples have some kind of issue right now. Some chlorosis on beni tsukasa, some retarded growth on little princess.
Should I use biogold, kelp, bone, blood, fish meal?
I saw 5kg biogold for 80 euros, is that good or bad? Is kelp better for JM?

Biogold is great, works very well with an organic fish liquid addition. This is what I use with 100% inorganic soil. Works great for me, anyway.

 

[Glaucus]

I am still looking for a cheap source of organic fertilizer. I have seen suggestions about using cottonseed meal, but I cannot find this product and check the stats, ie NPK.
I am very tempted to use Bio Gold. But for thousands of azalea seedlings, that's not really affordable.
Of course, I am also considering a bag of specialized rhododendron fertilizer, which is based on blood&bone meal, vinasse, and added beneficial microorganisms (which may be marketing or may actually work).
Ideally, it is indeed something which you can turn into a pellet or keep in bags, in the case it is used for bonsai.
To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to import a specific bonsai-fertilizer all from Japan. Not all fertilizer is completely equal, but basically it should be some organic waste product which can release the nutrients. When I check the Japanese Biogold page, I see it is fermented chicken manure, packaged in luxury bags. It reminds me of protein powders in fitness diet industry.
Chicken manure isn't so pricy. But maybe the added value and benefit to bonsai comes from fermenting it. I think normal chicken manure is only heated and extruded into pellets.

 

[Colorado]

I also use Dr. Earth organic fert when a more economical option is needed.

 

[penumbra]

I prefer an organic fertilizer but so do my raccoons and possums. I had them pull several azaleas and some other plants out of their pots about a week ago. These pots had organic fertilizer and the were pulled out the evening of the day they were planted.
The organic fish and kelp are the only ones I can use. I alternate that with Miracle Grow and Miracide. In growing on pots I use some Osmocote. The critters don't bother that.

 

[Leprous Garden]

Why?
Also its about having the right ones, not just any. I do hope phytophtora feels unwelcome
We get a lot of rain outside the growing season and Ive lost jms to rot and leaf issues before
It made sense to me how Peter Warren explained it
I think the 'its got all the npk fe mg etc. in the right dosage therefore its ideal' approach is like telling a human to eat 2000 kcal worth of high fructose corn syrup, 50g of protein powder, vitamin supplements and so on and expecting ideal health
Soil microbes can produce beneficial or harmful compounds for the plant and help or suppress each other. Some even enter the plant, even beneficial ones. To me its very logical that they matter
Im sure in many cases people can get away with inorganic fert for a lifetime, depending on many factors. But if there are issues this is something obvious to try out.

It's not though. Plants don't ingest - they uptake available nutrients from their environment through their roots (and through attachment to fungi). Soil microbes are extremely important, but if you want to nurture them for the health of your plant, remove it from bonsai soil and put it in the ground. Bonsai substrate is designed to drain fully, which makes for a poor environment for microbes.

If you believe organic fertilizers are better for the plant (and in this case we're talking about just the plant, not the soil or the environment) I would say it's on you to show why. In terms of chemistry, the nutrients are the same regardless of their source Trying to foster the best environment for microbes in your bonsai pots is missing what that substrate is meant to accomplish.

 

[ChadA2]

big fan of fish fertilizer

 

[Ugo]

Im using chicken manure with good results.
Cheap, available in large quatity and all my trees seems quite happy. I use tea bag and put the fert. In.
I've try chemical fertilizer half doze for a period of time but I didnt like the growth produced so I came back to organic.
With my limited experience I think the choice for using chemical or organic fert. should be guided by the state of developement of your tree.

 

[Paradox]

I've used King Neptune's fish emulsion and kelp mixture along with cakes made from plant tone with good success on most of my trees.

I use miracle grow on my tropicals during the winter because the others would stink up the house.

I use fertilizer made for acid loving plants on my azaleas and they love that.

 

[leatherback]

I think the 'its got all the npk fe mg etc. in the right dosage therefore its ideal' approach is like telling a human to eat 2000 kcal worth of high fructose corn syrup, 50g of protein powder, vitamin supplements and so on and expecting ideal health

This is exactly why I have a blend of packages in my shed. Whenever I see fertilizer on sale, I get some. I have saidung as a base-fertilizer, and a tub of fishstink. Then I have chicken pellets (Which are quite calcium rich though!). And I have the blue grains for thuja hedges. And I have iron oxides. And all sorts of chemical pellets for roses, fruiting shrubs and Azaleas.

I just have my base fertilizer, every few weeks. two three times a year I give fish. And when lots of rain is expected I add a bit of the çhemical" fertilizer on the substrate. Mixing it up makes for good diets.

Organic is the base though. A friend of mine is going to send me some details of organic fertilizer that comes in 50kg bags, used in organic farming.

 

[Shogun610]

Neptunes harvest every week(both the fish fertilizer and the fertilizer with Kelp , kelp is better in fall ) on them jawns , and holly tone in fertilizer bags

 

[waydeo]

My advice is to use alternating fertilizers in liquid form to get a balanced NPK and mineral profile and a slow release pellet fertilizer. I've. Had good luck with osmocote pellets, a little bit of systemic pellets (Japanese beetles tried to infest everything) and alternating diluted Dyna grow bonsai or miracle grow or Peter's once a week. All my plants are growing and look good. I've used fish emulsion before the wife hates the smell . Most of my soil mixes have some organics in them right now.

 

[penumbra]

Any natural fertilizer I use, except Neptune's, attracts critters. About 6 weeks ago I came across a bottle of organic granular fertilizer in my basement and could not remember why I stopped using it. I re-potted about a dozen azaleas using it and the next morning all of the azaleas were out of their pots that raccoons had been digging through to find the source of the enticing smell. Being reminded so rudely of why this fertilizer was on the shelf was a real aha moment. Three of those azaleas didn't make it.
I also use Miracle Grow, Miracid and on growing out plants I use Osmocote as well.

 

[waydeo]

Varmints and insects are why I shy away from organic fertilizers. They may be great but not worth the risks for me.