Please Help Identify this Tree!!

[chefmateo]

I have this tree that I've had for about 2 yrs or so. It was sold to me in my best recollection as a Chinese elm. The canopy however has leaves sans serrations. The current suckers have the serrations, but the rest of the tree doesn't. How is this possible? My bonsai buddy Thomas J. is also curious about this & this post is for him as well.

 

[Michael P]

The main tree has palmately compound leaves, which leads me to think that it is Vitex agnus-castus. The little "sucker" looks like an elm of some species. Both elms and vitex will grow accidentally from seed in Dallas. My guess is that one or the other species was the orginal tree, and the little sprouts are actually seedlings that volunteered in the pot.

 

[penumbra]

I cannot be sure what I am seeing here our expected to see. I see a picture of some elm leaves and then leaves of a vitex and a vitex bonsai.

 

[chefmateo]

There are no Elms within miles of my property..so the seedlings are from the mother plant from my best estimation. It was sold to me as an elm originally. It has not been grafted either.

 

[chefmateo]

I cannot be sure what I am seeing here our expected to see. I see a picture of some elm leaves and then leaves of a vitex and a vitex bonsai.

You see a tree with the base photograped(suckers), the canopy, & whole specimen. What are you missing? They are all parts of the whole.

 

[chefmateo]

The main tree has palmately compound leaves, which leads me to think that it is Vitex agnus-castus. The little "sucker" looks like an elm of some species. Both elms and vitex will grow accidentally from seed in Dallas. My guess is that one or the other species was the orginal tree, and the little sprouts are actually seedlings that volunteered in the pot.

The suckers are attached at the base of the tree..not just some random seedlings that "fell" into my pot.

 

[chefmateo]

These suckers are coming right from the base..& not like a seedling..right attached to the roots. If this is Vitex..how is this possible?

 

[Shibui]

These are definitely 2 different trees. My guess is they have somehow got into the pot together - one planted and the other an accidental seedling - and have both grown until the trunks and roots are now so entwined with each other that you can't spot the separate parts. I don't think 2 such different species can graft together but they can both grow around each other tightly enough to appear to be a single plant.
Latest photos show elm leaves only growing from the base so the trunk of the elm has probably died and the elm is trying to survive by growing shoots from the remaining roots buried in among the roots of the larger plant.

 

[Michael P]

When I look at the first close-up, I see the base of a trunk that has been cut at soil level, and the sprouts are growing from that. As Shibui suggests, the elm may have been the original tree and the vitex the volunteer seedling. The elm died back or was cut back at some point and the vitex took over. Vitex grow extremely fast, even faster than elms.

 

[penumbra]

I think Michael has it right. Particularly since it was sold to you as an elm. The elm could also have invaded the pot with a vitex in residence. I ad two pots with Chinese elms in my yard over 20 years ago and where the roots escaped the pot I still have elm sprouts from these old roots. I even sprayed them with roundup and this calmed them for a few years and now they are back. I have no source of elm seeds but many times I bring home a potted plant with elm or red maple seedlings. Yesterday I planted two containerized redbud cultivars and they had several elms and a few maples with them. I have had a vitex planted for about 30 years but I don't recall seeing any seedlings. Maybe my wife, the weed eater,has taken care of them. Anyway, good news is you have two trees.

 

[chefmateo]

So I did a little more digging..literally..into this mystery. What I found is this:..it appears the Vitex root base is growing over another mass in the pot. It's a darker color clump of wood which has the elm suckers coming off of it. At this point I'm assuming the Vitex is growing over an elm "stump" sort of like a root over rock. They also seem to be pretty fused together & I see no way of separating them without extensive damage to the root system. Not sure where to go from here. I've never seen or heard of a double bonsai before. I guess it could be used solely for propagation material. Anyway..not sure how or why this was allowed to happen.

 

[Michael P]

The roots may be completely entangled, but elm and vitex are so far apart genetically that I don't think a true graft is possible. It seems there are three choices.

1. Keep all of the foliage of one or the other cut off all the time. Eventually the plant with no foliage will die, but it might take a long time.
2. During the dormant season, bare-root the whole thing and separate the two root systems. Tedious and possibly fatal to one or both.
3. Let the elm sprouts grow and try to develop a two-species composition. This would be horticulturally and aesthetically difficult, but it would be unique! One species would need to be visually dominant, the obvious choice would be the vitex since it is already so much larger. Maybe the smaller trunk of the vitex is cut off, and the elm trained to take its place. Or both trunks of the vitex remain and the elm sprouts form a thicket underneath its canopy. This sort of thing does happen in nature ocasionally.