Please help in identifying "disease" on JBP

[Eric Group]

Not sure what it is yet, but I have some very regimented dots popping up along the needles of one of my JBPs... It seems to only be on two or three lower branches and the dots are in a very straight line going up the length of the needles- just a few sets of needles. They are oval in shape, off white in color, do not seem to be raised (not scale, but they kind of looked like that to me at first). I read about needle cast, but the pics on the site I was reading didn't really look like this... I will try to post pics tomorrow. No other noticeable signs of stress except some old needles turning brown (pretty normal this time of year for a couple sets of old needles to brown right?)...

This tree is still kind of young, went ahead and started to work on ramification this year after letting it mostly grow out the past 3-4 years, just doing some shaping and branch selection during that time... I'd hate to see him get sick now! He is due for a repot in the spring, so i Want him HEALTHY as can be then.. If this ailment is familiar to you, please chime in. Hopefully I can get some good pics tomorrow... (They always come out sideways when posted from my iPad- any advice on that?)

Thanks!

 

[coh]

I've got some scale on some of my pines that sounds a lot like what you describe. It's pretty flat but can be removed by scraping (though it is tenacious). I think people won't be able to ID it for certain without the photos.

Note, do a google images search for "pine scale"...does it look like that?

Chris

 

[0soyoung]

Swab them with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol on, say, a Q-tip. If it is scale, they will fall right off. The usual treatment for scale is an oil spray (e.g. NEEM) with a dash of detergent (wetting agent).

 

[Beng]

Second that it sounds like scale. Pull off a needle i bet it's under the needle sheath as well. I had it on one black pine and I dealt with it a couple years back. First thing I did was I quarantined the tree and kept it away from everything. Then I nuked it.. and nuked it... and nuked it.... some more, and then nuked it.. and nuked it... some more, used IGR's as well. It never stood a chance, I was dealing with a armored scale though perhaps your lucky and have a softshell one? If you have a lens around turn it upside down and put it right up against the needle and you'll be able to see what the spot is. My guess would be oystershell scale or maskell scale.

 

[Eric Group]

Well I have a pic to post, but I just cannot get pictures to upload here. Never had any success with it, totally frustrating! I couldn't even get imageshack to let me copy the link on this iPad! Is this site just not able to work with Apple products or is it just me? I will try to find a way to get the pics on my laptop after work today...

 

[Eric Group]

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5562/a4tp.jpg
I don't know if this will work or not...

 

[augustine]

Looks like scale.

 

[Eric Group]

Thanks! I will treat for scale this weekend.

 

[sdavis]

scale?

Can you scrape them of with your fingernail?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I don't know...to me it looks more like insect eggs...

 

[coh]

I was wondering about that too...the patterns are awfully regular.

Look at this page: http://ornamentaldiagnostics.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

Scroll down about 1/4 the way (9th image)...looks exactly like the photo they show for sawfly eggs.

Also: http://www.plantpath.cornell.edu/Trees/EuroPsawf.html

Chris

 

[Eric Group]

Can you scrape them of with your fingernail?

Not really, i tried and they are not raised off the surface of the needle... which is why I didn't think it was scale at first... Normally, in my experience, scale are little round almost leach looking insects that attach to new growth and drain it dry, but I have really only seen them on tropicals, house plants... That sort of stuff. I had never seen them on a pine, so i wasn't sure if they might look a little different but I don't really think this is scale. The discolored spots seem to be an actual discoloration on the needles, not an insect attached to them. I am going over to see a local guy who is way more of an expert than myself this weekend about maybe buying a few trees and stuff, I can take this one with me and ask him...

Thanks again for all the replies ya'll I appreciate the help! This little tree has been so healthy, I just want him to stay that way! He is finally starting to shape up for me and I think either next year or the year after he will get his first repot to a real bonsai container!

 

[Eric Group]

I was wondering about that too...the patterns are awfully regular.

Look at this page: http://ornamentaldiagnostics.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

Scroll down about 1/4 the way (9th image)...looks exactly like the photo they show for sawfly eggs.

Also: http://www.plantpath.cornell.edu/Trees/EuroPsawf.html

Chris

Man, I think that is it exactly! Looks like this could get pretty nasty if I don't get it taken care of! I had another pine that was ATTACKED by some sort of caterpillars last year, damn near killed half the tree in a DAY! I caught them early and saved it, but I sure don't want to risk anything like that again!!

 

[Eric Group]

I was wondering about that too...the patterns are awfully regular.

Look at this page: http://ornamentaldiagnostics.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

Scroll down about 1/4 the way (9th image)...looks exactly like the photo they show for sawfly eggs.

Also: http://www.plantpath.cornell.edu/Trees/EuroPsawf.html

Chris

Yep, after reading that second link, these are the SAME little buggers that attacked my other JBP last year!

It says in the articles to squish the larvae when they are present, but I would rather NOT let them hatch! Do you think I should just remove and destroy the affected needles? It is about 10-15 pairs of needles that at infected, on growth that is probably right around one season old, so I don't think is an ideal time to take off those needles... But removing a dozen sets of needles to save a bug attack on two or three branches seems worth it to me!

What do you think?

Thanks again Coh, I believe you and Brian were exactly right about this one!

 

[Poink88]

Do you think I should just remove and destroy the affected needles? It is about 10-15 pairs of needles that at infected, on growth that is probably right around one season old, so I don't think is an ideal time to take off those needles... But removing a dozen sets of needles to save a bug attack on two or three branches seems worth it to me!

What do you think?

I'll personally do that and watch/monitor later. Good luck!

 

[coh]

You could probably just scrape the eggs off the affected needles...I would try that first. That might save the needles, though they might be damaged. Not sure how well attached the eggs are.

I had sawflies on a pine a couple of years ago, they can do a lot of damage in a hurry. Unfortunately I never noticed the eggs. Now I know what to look for.

Chris

Edit...it sounds like the eggs aren't actually on the leaf surface but are in little slits made by the sawfly. So it may not be possible to remove them. If that's the case, you'll either have to remove the needles or wait till they hatch and remove them before they do any more damage. Let us know what you choose!

 

[jkd2572]

Find out what the saw flies gestation period is then spray with insecticide for a couple of gestation periods.

 

[Lazylightningny]

just pull the needles off and torch them. no sense fooling around.

 

[Eric Group]

You could probably just scrape the eggs off the affected needles...I would try that first. That might save the needles, though they might be damaged. Not sure how well attached the eggs are.

I had sawflies on a pine a couple of years ago, they can do a lot of damage in a hurry. Unfortunately I never noticed the eggs. Now I know what to look for.

Chris

Edit...it sounds like the eggs aren't actually on the leaf surface but are in little slits made by the sawfly. So it may not be possible to remove them. If that's the case, you'll either have to remove the needles or wait till they hatch and remove them before they do any more damage. Let us know what you choose!

Yep I tried to scrape them off a few times, I think since it is only about a dozen needles, and they are mostly on a really dense area of a lower branch, it should be ok to just trim the off and get rid of em! After viewing the larvae pic in that second link you posted, I am just sure it was these things that ravaged my other pine last year, and I just cannot take that chance! I found them probably the same day they had hatched,or maybe one day later, and they had cut a swath destruction across a big section of the tree! I was seriously concerned it might die for a couple weeks... Turns out the tree survived fine, all the branches that were affected grew back this spring (the bugs just seem to destroy existing needles, latent buds and new candles were unaffected) so the long term damage was minimal...

I thought at the time that it was the same caterpillars who were attacking my cabbage in the garden as that tree that was attacked last year sits in the back yard close to the garden... I thought it was so strange that they would chose a PINE tree to go after!! LoL.

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

 

[0soyoung]

... since it is only about a dozen needles, and they are mostly on a really dense area of a lower branch, it should be ok to just trim the off and get rid of em!

Ta da!!!! Excellent logic.

Do it and keep an eye out while you sip on your favorite celebratory beverage.

enjoy!