Please help me get a list going of trees' relative-callousing-abilities!!

[SU2]

In going-through the collection for fall-work I've done a ton of carving and this is often right-up-to living-veins, I do this to help roll-over however I've found such myriad "roll-over rates" or callousing-strength from various species that I just wish there were some index....Hence this thread!!
I ask, *beg*(!), that anyone reading will add at least 1 item, it's fine if you're guesstimating it although please try and denote if you think it could be majorly off, but if everyone adds something I can keep editing this first post and include it all here
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[High/Medium/Low Callous-Profusion ratings, with 1-->10 guesstimates:]
Bougainvilleas: Low (2.5)
Crape Myrtle: High (7)
Grape Vines: Medium (4)
Ficus: High (9)
Bald Cypress: High (10.0 lol)
Maple: High (8-->9)
Oak: Medium (5) (quercus virginiana Oaks)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks a ton for any contributions to this list, I think that callousing-strength is a *very* massively-useful feature of a species when you're developing a tree, hell on my BC's the wound-response is so strong that I'll actually inflict wounds on the trunking in spots where I want a lil bulging (literally as simple as "cut a stripe now, get a raised-line in 3-->5 months" with BC's!), but for closing chop-wounds - which is the name of the game in early-development stock - this ^ callous-rating totally separates trees, would love to have a list going here (wonder where Podocarpus is on it...sadly I get the feeling they aren't that strong 'callousers')

 

[SU2]

Figured since it's the topic, & since pretty pictures are pretty, that I'd add some callousing eye-candy

18mo old BC
(actually @Mellow Mullet I'd love to hear from you if I'm approaching ^this BC's branch-development seemingly-OK? I've now got 2 skinny lil primaries up top that are coming from the 1st leader-primary, I expect that it'll be ~1yr before those two new leaders are thick-enough to cut but I do expect that, at this height, that those two will each be the primaries that feed each of the two flat-tops in the final design!)




^This guy is fun, a swamp-tree I collected back in Feb when getting BC's, I've yet to ID it, anyways the trunk is about 4.5' long and the leader-branch shown here got to around 7' before I cut it back, while the callousing here is large so is the branch so I'd still give this guy just a ~6 or 7 for this thread's Callousing-Index(lol), if this were a BC I expect the rollover would've been much much further-along when the branch's girth, relative to the trunk's girth, got to these^ proportions.

 

[Paulpash]

Remember too that there are a whole host of other factors to consider when compiling your list, including length of growing season, position (full / part sun), final container / training pot / ground planted with various soil & substrates as well as water & fertilizer variables.

My ginkgo, as an example, grown in the ground and about 10ft tall has calloused over a wound more quickly than a Hornbeam 3ft tall with a similar chop next to it.

 

[sorce]

Honestly....

Other factors that make this list impossible.
Or complete nonsense in your garden. Unappliable. Useless.

The very act of transpiration is what creates the traffic that creates the heal.

So root masses and their water intake would have to be calculated.

As well as a constant humidity monitor.

Nonsense.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Everything we do is pretty subjective and we grow things all around the whole world, so the list is necessarily going to be "advised" at best. But if we keep confined to trees in a pot, maybe we can see some correlations we can agree upon?

 

[penumbra]

It depends a lot on growth rate. Bougainvillea were rated low but I rate my very highly. I let them run a lot and then cut heavily.

 

[Gsquared]

I disagree that a list is nonsense. I absolutely agree that there are many factors that can affect callousing of a wound, that said, there are definitely some species that generally callous better than others. I think that is what the OP has in mind; not a guarantee, not a bible, just what your experience is w different trees.

Rather than rate a species on a scale, I’m just going to tell you my experience with some. Not trying to be argumentative, just sharing my experience. These are all trees that I have had direct experience with.

Trident maple, usually very good, especially if grown with lots of room for the roots. Sometimes they callous too much!
Japanese maple, slower than trident, but with time even the largest wounds will heal as long as the tissue below is alive and vigorous. If the trunk is partly dead, lots of luck.
European and Japanese beech, great. I’ve had a chop on a 2 inch trunk that healed over in a little over 2 years.
Boxwood, terrible callouser. A callous will form around the wound, but only the smallest branches will completely heal over from my experience.
Oak, variable. I’ve had fast callousing with chops on cork oak, but California live oak, never seemed like it would ever heal over. Cork oak really calloused fast in warmer climate
Azalea, slower to heal, but seems like they will eventually.
Crabapple, I’ve got a Manchurian crab that has put on some good callouses over the course of the last year, but one of my garden variety crabs (snow something or other) seems to be taking forever on a big chop.
Zelkova seems to be a good callous maker, I will find out more when I chop one this spring. There seems to be some trick w hollowing out the cut to keep the trunk from swelling.
Conifers in general: for the most part I don’t find that conifers are trees that completely callous over wounds very quickly. That’s why we do jin and shari. Pines (JBP) will do it w good vigorous growth. Junipers, I’ve never had one completely heal over anything bigger than a match stick. That said nearly all confers seem to roll over a callous on a shari over time. Over time cut branches sort of disappear into the bark on pines. I’ve seen some pretty aggressive callous growth on hemlock, but only younger ones.

That’s my two cents.

 

[SU2]

Remember too that there are a whole host of other factors to consider when compiling your list, including length of growing season, position (full / part sun), final container / training pot / ground planted with various soil & substrates as well as water & fertilizer variables.

My ginkgo, as an example, grown in the ground and about 10ft tall has calloused over a wound more quickly than a Hornbeam 3ft tall with a similar chop next to it.

Yes they've gotta be relative for sure, a larger tree will of course close quicker/callous larger, I think a better way to have phrased it would've been for me to say "What species push the fattest branch-collars, and let collars 'creep'?" because this seems to be both a correlate & the practical reason for consideration in the 1st place, for instance BC's callous so readily that I use it to 'train' them for instance yesterday afternoon I snapped this pic before wounding it to show the ideal scenario (outside of wound-coverage of course!) wherein I use this type of 'trick' of intentional wounding-for-callousing:

^that leftward-aimed primary will merge-into the leader-primary's collar in short-order after having nicked-up the area (while it's probably obvious with thought, it's important - of course - to remember to cut with the grain as to not have significant impact on cambial flow, I've never ever had one of these interventions 'show up' in terms of slowed growth or anything like that) I also nick the inside-edges of almost-every chop wound in my yard

 

[sorce]

I'm certainly not trying to poo on the parade.

We CAN learn things that matter about healing.
A list of species that heal well just isn't going to help us.

There are thousands of "what if's" that will effect the list rendering it useless.
Even if ACCURATE, what use is this list?

All these differences MUST be listed to have the most accurate.

Cut type/angle, cut tool, cut time, season length, humidity, leaf mass, root mass, water amount/duration, soil and water PH, fertilizer type and application.

That's all ready too much to list.

Now let's say the list IS accurate.

What do you do with the information?

BC heals fast, whoop de Doo....

A bad cut at a bad time with a blunt tool will render the fast healing ugly.

Wow ...

This just isn't a craft you can list check and go at.

The whole.....living thing thing....

This "make a list" thing is promoting the impossible instant gratification thing, making everyone suck at this. No worries we know who you are!

As a Bonsai Artist, Bonsai Artist, not douchebag midst little trees, anyone can observe their own trees and make an accurate list for themselves in their own garden before the information will even be needed.

Making this inaccurate list is a waste of our time.

Some "douchebag midst little trees" is just going to come and bitch cuz his BC healed ugly.

Let's talk about how not to leave a 3fer at the healing site.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Picky, picky, picky. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. We need to walk before we create a ten volume encyclopedia of horticulture. General statements with a few caveats? Those who can't play well with others need to sit this one out.

 

[sorce]

Picky, picky, picky

Attention to Detail, Attention to Detail, Attention to Detail.

Shit that Actually Matters, Shit that Actually Matters, Shit that Actually Matters.

We are not serving anyone by pretending we are serving someone no matter how hard it is to see the real.

Of course, the question can simply be answered....

What do we do with the information when we have it?

Sorce

 

[Gsquared]

But to ignore the fact that species callous at vastly different rates is not helpful. Of course to say it is all dependent on your growing conditions and experience level but ignore the fact that some species just don’t grow over wounds readily is less that’s helpful. The fact remains that no matter how perfect the growing conditions, a boxwood is not going to heal over a branch cut as readily as a trident maple or beech. The cleanness of the cut, age of the tree etc. matter, but so does the species. So if shit matters, then the species is part of that shit to consider.

 

[SU2]

a 3fer

?

 

[SU2]

Picky, picky, picky. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. We need to walk before we create a ten volume encyclopedia of horticulture. General statements with a few caveats? Those who can't play well with others need to sit this one out.

I didn't truly expect to make a formal list out of this like you (and especially @sorce ) seem to think, I was more hoping for general knowledge on it because it IS relevant as @Gsquared so succinctly puts it. Yes, of course I know that bc's callous well and bougies don't, I put as much in post#1, instead of posting about the futility of this you could've just added a handful of callousing-abilities of varying species you had that you were confident about, that way anyone reading would be able to get an idea - it IS important, and your thinking that I want/need to have it fine-grained to the levels you describe is just silly and honestly seems like you're just using hyperbole (you've gotta think I'm reallllllly OCD if you thought the goal was to make any form of formal chart, this is just a relative-callousing thread no more no less), at over 10 posts if each had just a few mentions we'd have 30+ trees' descriptions listed, it doesn't have to be thorough or that scientific to be of use to us
[edit- I'm talking more to you here sorce although it applies to anyone who says "because this can't be done thoroughly&exhaustively, there's no value to any menial attempts at it", or tries implying that extenuating circumstances of callousing render any general characteristics useless, I'm not looking for specifics just generalities which varying species certainly exhibit)

 

[Anthony]

How to test -

in the ground - 3 feet from the top
from the side 3 feet

Grow a shoot see how the tree / shrub reacts to trunk or cut.

Repeat in an oversized container.

example - Local Willow ficus - 3 foot extensions heals wounds,
and thickens the trunk - in a one inch deep pot. 9 parts inorganic
1 part organic.
Takes 1 to 6 months - Tropics.
Possibly the most extreme example.

Also works on J.B.pine, but you need a pot 12 x 5 inches deep.
7 parts organic 3 parts inorganic
closer to a year.
Once again tropics.

Happy researching
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

This list matters like knowing there is an available parking spot at your destination when you are walking there.

Sorce