pond basket or ground?

[AutumnWolf13]

I ordered a couple small Trident maples yesterday for future projects. I was thinking of planting them in the yard to grow them out, where they would be exposed to winter winds, mice, voles, rabbits, tree rats (squirrels) and whatever else Mother Earth could dish out.

I thought maybe I should put them in grow out pots with good bonsai soil and be able to move them to more or less sun, protect them from extreme elements and evil critters and have better control their growing conditions.

Will trees grow as fast in grow out pots as they would in the ground? Would it be preferable to do so?

 

[Nybonsai12]

Ground will be faster.

 

[M. Frary]

More control with boxes or pots.

 

[0soyoung]

For the next 2 or 3 years, growth in a pot will at least equal in the ground. After that, it is no contest - ground will be far better.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It depends.

The ground here in Southern California sucks. It is mostly clay, low on nutrients, not very permeable to air, and difficult to water effectively.

4 years back I tried an experiment. I put 10 shimpaku rooted cuttings in the ground (in an area where I turned up and mulched the clay to a depth of 12"). I then put 12 shimpaku rooted cuttings into large pond baskets with bonsai soil - 4 cuttings per basket. They both received the same water on an automatic sprinkler system, and were on the same fertilizer schedule. After four years there was no comparison - the pond basket shimpakus were 4x as large. They didn't even look like they were from the same batch of rooted cuttings. Additionally, over the years I lost a number of the "in the ground" shimpakus due to critters or other acts of God. I still have all 12 pond basket shimpakus - and last year I wired the trunks and this year they will all be replanted into separate baskets.

So a lot depends on the "ground" where you live, and the length of time you plan to grow your trees. Also once a pre-bonsai is too big for a large pond basket I will often move it into an Anderson flat for it to continue to grow... and you can grow a pretty big tree in a 16" x "16" x 5" flat.

 

[clive bennett]

I grow in pots to sort horizontal root growth for 2 years then ground growing over a tile, slows growth a little but saves drastic root work when it is time to pot the trees up, and the inevitable set back that causes. so faster overall

 

[Anthony]

Simple @AutumnWolf13 ,

talk to @Smoke , he purchases thick trunked trident maples.
Ask him if the guy he buys from, ground grows and how the maple handles
a refinement box.

Additionally, if like BNuts soil, there maybe a hard pan layer
under the soil, it may have to be broken up, for water to go
deeper.

Or you can take say 8 concrete blocks leave on the surface
and fill with good soil mix. The tree can grow in the good
layer and then pass into the ground.

You can also place the maples on a tile in a colander and
then plant. For better surface roots.
If a root or two start getting too thick, just cut it back.

On our side only a willow leaf ficus will really root thicken
in a shallow [ 1" ] deep pot.

This is why we call grow out pots --------- refinement pots.
Used for branchlets.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[coh]

Ground is almost always faster. I have had a few trees kind of "sulk" for a year or two after planting in the ground, but that is rare in my experience. But as others have said, it does depend on your soil and exposure (full sun or shaded, etc).

You really do need to be aware of how quickly roots can grow in the ground, and often there seem to be a couple of roots that grow at the expense of others. This can lead to nebari issues down the road. I have had good luck planting trees out on boards or tiles or even plates, this helps guide the roots along in a horizontal direction before they plunge down. Also seems to make digging a bit easier because the roots aren't all shooting straight down right under the base.

And of course, if you can't protect them from critters, then ground growth will turn out to be a lot slower I wrap the trunks of particularly susceptible trees in the fall. Voles and mice can do a LOT of damage under the snow.

 

[miker]

I would also advise putting your tridents in the ground for development.

AutumnWolf13, That is so funny you call your area of SE PA "the shire", my parents relocated to Wyomissing from Orlando a few years back and my mom always calls it "the shire". They love it here. Is it common for locals to call this area "the shire" or is it just a coincidence?

 

[Toraidento]

Not sure if this will help u but I seen this video the other day on youtube.

It shows how to thicken trunk in a tub with holes cut on 4 sides so the roots can get out and grow into the ground. Which sounds like what u are trying to do, and if u need to I guess u could cut the roots growing out of the tub and move to a different location although I don't think he meant for this to be moveable just to thicken trunks. But hey don't listen to me I am so new to bonsai I'm still needing to be burped and my diaper changed.

 

[discusmike]

Five years in ground,after third year you can really see girth on the trunks

 

[MichaelS]

Not sure if this will help u but I seen this video the other day on youtube.

It shows how to thicken trunk in a tub with holes cut on 4 sides so the roots can get out and grow into the ground. Which sounds like what u are trying to do, and if u need to I guess u could cut the roots growing out of the tub and move to a different location although I don't think he meant for this to be moveable just to thicken trunks. But hey don't listen to me I am so new to bonsai I'm still needing to be burped and my diaper changed.

I saw this a while back and I'm very impressed with this idea. Especially the round basin with holes in the sides. In fact I was going to try it this spring but forgot all about it until I saw this again. Maybe next year.
Excellent idea!

 

[coh]

Basically a version of the well known root escape method. I've been using a similar approach with some trees that I'm trying to develop, that aren't hardy here. I put the pot in the ground (with holes or slats removed to allow roots to escape) in the spring and dig it out in the fall for storage. While growth isn't nearly as rapid as planting directly in the ground, you can definitely speed things up.

 

[Anthony]

I would still prefer the colander for feeder root regeneration, after removing from
the ground.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[AutumnWolf13]

I would also advise putting your tridents in the ground for development.

AutumnWolf13, That is so funny you call your area of SE PA "the shire", my parents relocated to Wyomissing from Orlando a few years back and my mom always calls it "the shire". They love it here. Is it common for locals to call this area "the shire" or is it just a coincidence?

The town I live in is Shiremanstown, hence, "The Shire"

 

[AutumnWolf13]

Simple @AutumnWolf13 ,

Additionally, if like BNuts soil, there maybe a hard pan layer
under the soil, it may have to be broken up, for water to go
deeper.

Blessed with great soil here. I have to dig a couple feet of down or more to hit clay. Rich in organics and drains beautifully. I'm VERY lucky with that!
Lots of critters though. I had to make chicken wire cages for my JMs in the landscape or the bunnies would eat all the buds off. The bastards!

 

[Anthony]

Like that ----------- death dealing --------- Bunnies -
On our side it is Mr and Mrs Antshriek.
Wings of fury

 

[M. Frary]

Basically a version of the well known root escape method. I've been using a similar approach with some trees that I'm trying to develop, that aren't hardy here. I put the pot in the ground (with holes or slats removed to allow roots to escape) in the spring and dig it out in the fall for storage. While growth isn't nearly as rapid as planting directly in the ground, you can definitely speed things up.

If I don't move them around every so often trees will root into my benches.

 

[AutumnWolf13]

Not sure if this will help u but I seen this video the other day on youtube.

It shows how to thicken trunk in a tub with holes cut on 4 sides so the roots can get out and grow into the ground. Which sounds like what u are trying to do, and if u need to I guess u could cut the roots growing out of the tub and move to a different location although I don't think he meant for this to be moveable just to thicken trunks. But hey don't listen to me I am so new to bonsai I'm still needing to be burped and my diaper changed.

Great video, but he stated he is in the tropics where growing season is all year long. How would this translate into zone 6b-7a where winter gets down to zero to 5F?

 

[AutumnWolf13]

Basically a version of the well known root escape method. I've been using a similar approach with some trees that I'm trying to develop, that aren't hardy here. I put the pot in the ground (with holes or slats removed to allow roots to escape) in the spring and dig it out in the fall for storage. While growth isn't nearly as rapid as planting directly in the ground, you can definitely speed things up.

From what I've read, Tridents are zone 5. I'm assuming I could leave them in ground?