Pond baskets overwinter

Nj6964

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As I’m embarking on this new obsession called bonsai, I saw so much good information about pond baskets. I went to Lowe’s and bought some yesterday. My trees are all relatively young nursery stock, a DAS, 2 junipers and a cotoneaster. I’m considering slipping them into pond baskets. Has anyone every experienced any detriment overwintering in a pond basket? Do you simply take the same precautions as a regular pot? I’m planning to put them out of the window and cover the pots in mulch or hay.

Along those same lines, if I want more trunk growth, I’ve heard to slip them into a grow box. Is there any harm in using a pond basket at this point, will it slow trunk growth because the roots are ramifying?
 

AZbonsai

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The first thing you need to consider is if it is the correct time to repot your plants. Maybe some one from NJ can pipe in. I think your technique for wintering by covering your pots is a good practice in the winter time. Personally, I would wait for spring to repot your plants.
 

Dav4

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I agree with what AZ said, but will also mention the the root zone of trees kept in pond baskets through the winter are much more likely to dessicate when exposed to cold, dry winds as compared to pots that have relatively solid bottoms and sides. I'd want these mulched for sure.
 

River's Edge

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As I’m embarking on this new obsession called bonsai, I saw so much good information about pond baskets. I went to Lowe’s and bought some yesterday. My trees are all relatively young nursery stock, a DAS, 2 junipers and a cotoneaster. I’m considering slipping them into pond baskets. Has anyone every experienced any detriment overwintering in a pond basket? Do you simply take the same precautions as a regular pot? I’m planning to put them out of the window and cover the pots in mulch or hay.

Along those same lines, if I want more trunk growth, I’ve heard to slip them into a grow box. Is there any harm in using a pond basket at this point, will it slow trunk growth because the roots are ramifying?
A grow box will promote better trunk growth than a pond basket due to the air pruning effect of a pond basket. However if you plant the pond basket in the ground the growth will outperform the grow box given the same degree of care.
I would repot in the spring. Slip potting is convenient but temporary and simply needs to be done properly a short time later. leave the plants in their current container until spring.
I am growing out juniper in pond baskets dug into grow beds. This allows me to rotate the trees, contain the roots, and promote rapid growth. I over winter all colandars and pond baskets by setting them into the ground unless i have room for them in the greenhouse. We have a wet winter and the pond basket is more effective drainage than using a regular pot or nursery container in the ground or even set on the ground. Andersen flats are also useful for this purpose.
Having noted the above, the local conditions should determine your approach.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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A grow box will promote better trunk growth than a pond basket due to the air pruning effect of a pond basket. However if you plant the pond basket in the ground the growth will outperform the grow box given the same degree of care.
I would repot in the spring. Slip potting is convenient but temporary and simply needs to be done properly a short time later. leave the plants in their current container until spring.
I am growing out juniper in pond baskets dug into grow beds. This allows me to rotate the trees, contain the roots, and promote rapid growth. I over winter all colandars and pond baskets by setting them into the ground unless i have room for them in the greenhouse. We have a wet winter and the pond basket is more effective drainage than using a regular pot or nursery container in the ground or even set on the ground. Andersen flats are also useful for this purpose.
Having noted the above, the local conditions should determine your approach.
What is your medium you are using in pond baskets?
Also, what is your watering schedule like in winter if using “bonsai” soil?
Thanks
 

River's Edge

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What is your medium you are using in pond baskets?
Also, what is your watering schedule like in winter if using “bonsai” soil?
Thanks
Soil mix is adjusted for species but has four components, Akadama, pumice, lava and granite grit.
For pines in development my mix is 25% 0f each of the four. The percentage of Akadama increase as they get closer to refinement.
The mix is based on the tree stage and species not the container.
My watering schedule for all trees is to check as needed and water as needed. ( this is the only aspect of watering that is transferable to other situations and mixes. Check as needed and water as needed.

Too many variables for one schedule. Tree, species, container, placement, in greenhouse, out of greenhouse.

Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall outdoors or greenhouse.

In retirement I do bonsai basically full time so I am not restricted by work schedule.

Most of the year I check and water almost everything daily due to the free draining mix I use.
During hot spells ,may need to water some twice a day ( like pond baskets) During the winter ( our wet season) may end up being once a week or every ten days for some situations.

I advise others to choose a soil mix that works for your schedule. More moisture retention if longer periods of absence is part of your work schedule but it should still be free draining with containers that do not pool water. Hope the explanation helps.
 

Orion_metalhead

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From NJ. Do not use pond baskets but above advice is excellent. I would definitely ensure that the root mass is mulched or underground. I do this with all my trees and they get by fine. You're trees are plenty hardy for this method.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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Soil mix is adjusted for species but has four components, Akadama, pumice, lava and granite grit.
For pines in development my mix is 25% 0f each of the four. The percentage of Akadama increase as they get closer to refinement.
The mix is based on the tree stage and species not the container.
My watering schedule for all trees is to check as needed and water as needed. ( this is the only aspect of watering that is transferable to other situations and mixes. Check as needed and water as needed.

Too many variables for one schedule. Tree, species, container, placement, in greenhouse, out of greenhouse.

Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall outdoors or greenhouse.

In retirement I do bonsai basically full time so I am not restricted by work schedule.

Most of the year I check and water almost everything daily due to the free draining mix I use.
During hot spells ,may need to water some twice a day ( like pond baskets) During the winter ( our wet season) may end up being once a week or every ten days for some situations.

I advise others to choose a soil mix that works for your schedule. More moisture retention if longer periods of absence is part of your work schedule but it should still be free draining with containers that do not pool water. Hope the explanation helps.
Thanks Frank for getting back to me. I guess the part that I still struggle with and find much conflicting information on is pre-bonsai material, young stock. What are you using for medium in pre-bonsai? I know we want to use bonsai soil as soon as possible for oxygen/healthy root systems. This presents two problems, cost and time. It is not cheap for several gallons of bonsai soil and watering lots of trees can become quite labor intensive. Any guidance is appreciated.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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From NJ. Do not use pond baskets but above advice is excellent. I would definitely ensure that the root mass is mulched or underground. I do this with all my trees and they get by fine. You're trees are plenty hardy for this method.
Why no pond baskets?
 

Gr8tfuldad

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Soil mix is adjusted for species but has four components, Akadama, pumice, lava and granite grit.
For pines in development my mix is 25% 0f each of the four. The percentage of Akadama increase as they get closer to refinement.
The mix is based on the tree stage and species not the container.
My watering schedule for all trees is to check as needed and water as needed. ( this is the only aspect of watering that is transferable to other situations and mixes. Check as needed and water as needed.

Too many variables for one schedule. Tree, species, container, placement, in greenhouse, out of greenhouse.

Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall outdoors or greenhouse.

In retirement I do bonsai basically full time so I am not restricted by work schedule.

Most of the year I check and water almost everything daily due to the free draining mix I use.
During hot spells ,may need to water some twice a day ( like pond baskets) During the winter ( our wet season) may end up being once a week or every ten days for some situations.

I advise others to choose a soil mix that works for your schedule. More moisture retention if longer periods of absence is part of your work schedule but it should still be free draining with containers that do not pool water. Hope the explanation helps.
Another question for you. How are you checking for when to water? In traditional promix (peat based) medium I check by lifting pot for weight or if plant is showing signs of needing water (which is too far imho). In an inorganic mix, what is your method?
 

River's Edge

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Thanks Frank for getting back to me. I guess the part that I still struggle with and find much conflicting information on is pre-bonsai material, young stock. What are you using for medium in pre-bonsai? I know we want to use bonsai soil as soon as possible for oxygen/healthy root systems. This presents two problems, cost and time. It is not cheap for several gallons of bonsai soil and watering lots of trees can become quite labor intensive. Any guidance is appreciated.
Sorry, I thought I answered . I use the same components for all of my nursery material regardless of stage of development or species. I vary the percentage to adjust for stage of growth, species or container. I am not concerned with the cost of materials, simply the best outcome for the intended goals. My time and labour have a higher value to me than the cost of supplies. Soil cost is a small part of overall nursery expenses.

My experience and training show better results with this approach in a shorter time frame and it suits my small operation.
So inorganic mix in grow beds, grow boxes, Anderson Flats, nursery pots, colanders, and Bonsai pots. I have a few exceptions and situations where I use only one or two components for special stages of propagation. This would include seedlings, cuttings, air layers or special species that require more acidic soil mix.

This is not what most nurseries do, and many prefer to use cheaper soil mixes. Lots of combinations work with more or less effective results.

It does not have to be confusing or right or wrong. Choose the approach that works for you within your budget and circumstances. If you are satisfied with the results then no need to change or improve your methods.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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Sorry, I thought I answered . I use the same components for all of my nursery material regardless of stage of development or species. I vary the percentage to adjust for stage of growth, species or container. I am not concerned with the cost of materials, simply the best outcome for the intended goals. My time and labour have a higher value to me than the cost of supplies. Soil cost is a small part of overall nursery expenses.

My experience and training show better results with this approach in a shorter time frame and it suits my small operation.
So inorganic mix in grow beds, grow boxes, Anderson Flats, nursery pots, colanders, and Bonsai pots. I have a few exceptions and situations where I use only one or two components for special stages of propagation. This would include seedlings, cuttings, air layers or special species that require more acidic soil mix.

This is not what most nurseries do, and many prefer to use cheaper soil mixes. Lots of combinations work with more or less effective results.

It does not have to be confusing or right or wrong. Choose the approach that works for you within your budget and circumstances. If you are satisfied with the results then no need to change or improve your methods.
Thank you for clarifying. Like Michael said in his book, the sooner you start with good soil, the sooner you have a better root system. I come from a long horticultural background, which as Michael also noted, is almost like starting over as a grower once you start with Bonsai. Thanks again for taking the time to address my questions.
 

Orion_metalhead

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Why no pond baskets?
I just use grow boxes made from scrap pallet wood I can get for free. I can make them any size, super cheap, and they stay a little less dry, which is beneficial in summer since I often work long hours and can't be home to water all the time.

I have nothing against pond baskets, just don't use them. If you aren't around to consistently water, they may give you some trouble with trees that do not like to go dry. They would be good for pines in development for example, since Pines like a slightly drier soil.
 

Eckhoffw

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As others have said, repotting can wait. I’d do a late spring repot. And if into pond baskets, be sure to soak multiple times.

I like pond baskets, but find repeated soakings can be needed to adequately water the core of the root ball. Most of the initial watering seams to just go through the sides and out.
 

penumbra

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I guess I have about 80+ plants in pond baskets. Flowering, deciduous and conifer. I do adjust my mix according to the plants needs and watering requirements. Some of these baskets are high and dry on pallets, some on wood chips, some mulched in and some in grow beds. I never have to water more than once a day, and daily watering is only done when it is very hot. I do not adhere to a completely inorganic mix for most of my plants. I don't adhere to a strict bonsai mix substrate but I use a loose mix with about 30% to 50% pine bark. The other ingredients vary according to needs. I am pleased with my results just about all the time.
 

River's Edge

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Another question for you. How are you checking for when to water? In traditional promix (peat based) medium I check by lifting pot for weight or if plant is showing signs of needing water (which is too far imho). In an inorganic mix, what is your method?
There are a number of ways to check for water, One of the advantages of including Akadama in the mix is the colour change when dry. This method works for me as I can judge quickly the moisture levels by the depth of colour change in the Akadama. Another advantage of the inorganic mix is the free draining aspect makes it difficult to overwater. For most species I make sure that they are watered when the mix is drying out within the first 1/2 to 3/4 inch below the surface.
The simplest method when beginning with a new mix is to use a wooden chopstick. Insert it approximately I or 1 1/2 inch into the substrate. If it comes out wet or damp you can wait to water later. If it comes out dry, water. After a while the chopstick is not needed.
Every method that someone mentions will probably suit their mix or circumstances so may not be best for you. I do think the chopstick method is the simplest to begin with if using inorganic mix.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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I just use grow boxes made from scrap pallet wood I can get for free. I can make them any size, super cheap, and they stay a little less dry, which is beneficial in summer since I often work long hours and can't be home to water all the time.

I have nothing against pond baskets, just don't use them. If you aren't around to consistently water, they may give you some trouble with trees that do not like to go dry. They would be good for pines in development for example, since Pines like a slightly drier soil.
What a great idea and useful practice to recycle! Thanks for the idea.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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As others have said, repotting can wait. I’d do a late spring repot. And if into pond baskets, be sure to soak multiple times.

I like pond baskets, but find repeated soakings can be needed to adequately water the core of the root ball. Most of the initial watering seams to just go through the sides and out.
Thank you for the heads up on watering technique. I use peat a lot in other growing situations. It is very similar to water, it’s almost like it repels water for a bit and then eventually takes it up.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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I guess I have about 80+ plants in pond baskets. Flowering, deciduous and conifer. I do adjust my mix according to the plants needs and watering requirements. Some of these baskets are high and dry on pallets, some on wood chips, some mulched in and some in grow beds. I never have to water more than once a day, and daily watering is only done when it is very hot. I do not adhere to a completely inorganic mix for most of my plants. I don't adhere to a strict bonsai mix substrate but I use a loose mix with about 30% to 50% pine bark. The other ingredients vary according to needs. I am pleased with my results just about all the time.
Do you find that adding pine bark adjusts the ph down? If so do you adjust ph with lime etc? Thanks.
 

Gr8tfuldad

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There are a number of ways to check for water, One of the advantages of including Akadama in the mix is the colour change when dry. This method works for me as I can judge quickly the moisture levels by the depth of colour change in the Akadama. Another advantage of the inorganic mix is the free draining aspect makes it difficult to overwater. For most species I make sure that they are watered when the mix is drying out within the first 1/2 to 3/4 inch below the surface.
The simplest method when beginning with a new mix is to use a wooden chopstick. Insert it approximately I or 1 1/2 inch into the substrate. If it comes out wet or damp you can wait to water later. If it comes out dry, water. After a while the chopstick is not needed.
Every method that someone mentions will probably suit their mix or circumstances so may not be best for you. I do think the chopstick method is the simplest to begin with if using inorganic mix.
Great idea with the chopstick. Similar to the finger technique in organic mixes. There is no way my fat fingers are poking into an inorganic mix 😂
 
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