Pondering my bonsai future...

[luvinthemountains]

Not being one for keeping my thoughts to myself, I thought that I would put this out there, and seek out others' experiences as well. What I am pondering is whether to keep going with "sticks in pots" projects, or to dump those and focus on acquiring high quality trees that are ready for or even part way into styling and/or branch development. That is clearly not an original thought, but it is plaguing me a bit.

Here I have been doing this for over 15 years now (granted several of those years have been focused on other things) and I still have very little in terms of actual bonsai, let alone real-world experience with bonsai techniques. Over the past year or two, I have acquired several good solid "pre-bonsai" (not sticks in pots) with the intention of correcting that problem. So I have a decent mix now, but I can't shake the feeling that I could just be wasting my time with the sticks in pots. Especially because conditions in Utah don't seem to favor spectacular growth!

I look around at you all, and most of those who I consider advanced amateurs seem to keep a bunch of them around. But the members who have really outstanding trees, I don't see fiddling much with sticks in pots (no offense intended to the rest of you). I am still puzzling over what way to go. Anybody care to share a little bit of their journey thus far?

 

[penumbra]

If its still fun, continue. If its not fun, do something that is.

 

[Carol 83]

When I started out, I bought a ton of little, cheap material. The last few years I have been more selective and concentrated more on acquiring less quantity and better quality. Not that I have any massively expensive trees, I'm just trying to slowly improve my collection.

 

[Kanorin]

I look around at you all, and most of those who I consider advanced amateurs seem to keep a bunch of them around. But the members who have really outstanding trees, I don't see fiddling much with sticks in pots (no offense intended to the rest of you). I am still puzzling over what way to go. Anybody care to share a little bit of their journey thus far?

From visiting club members gardens who have been doing bonsai for 10+ years, most of them still have a few "project trees" aka sticks in pots. They just don't post them or share about them until they are ready to share. If you had 10 great trees and 10 sticks in pots, which would you share?

 

[Calnicky]

When I started out, I bought a ton of little, cheap material. The last few years I have been more selective and concentrated more on acquiring less quantity and better quality. Not that I have any massively expensive trees, I'm just trying to slowly improve my collection.

Ditto, except most of my "sticks" was stuff I dug out of the yard. I spent a fair amount of time thinking "why am I bothering with this crazy hobby?" In the last five years I've realized I need to improve the overall collection. I've purchased from a local bonsai nursery and from my club's auction...and retired to the garden, the plant swap or the compost bin a few things that were never going to be bonsai. It takes a while to develop and eye - at least has for me. At this point though, I can't put it down! I guess I've been practicing for about 10-12 years now.

 

[leatherback]

It is a very personal choice. For me the fun is also in finding a treee in a mess, and propagation and working with stuff others call impossible. So for me, there is a continuous push of more advanced trees out of the yard, and startup stuff into the yard. However, I have decided to reduce the projects and have a few more good trees. In the end, I will probably end up with 20-30 trees that I could put up for exhibition in local shows of which a few could be good enough to go to a national show. And 20 or so "projects".
Ha. I am almost fooling myself.

Do what you like. Do it for you. Not what others say you should do.

 

[badatusernames]

I’ve been making myself buy more quality material vs. sticks because I still want to care in 10 years when the sticks aren’t sticks any longer

the stuff I get as sticks has a variety of potential purposes and I’ve only been buying what I think I’ll reaaaaaally care about and enjoy working on vs. the end result. Last year I only got crape sticks because I know they grow fast, and it’s let me see how quickly they can develop and what to do as they do.

If I had started with a slower growing species, I don’t think the sticks I do have would have the same level of importance to me. I’m getting more this year, but primarily maples which can be used as grafts, shohin projects, nebari projects, etc but all the same general species. I’ve got chojubai sticks too, and will be ground growing Chinese quince.

Beyond that I try to limit the sticks because I find I’m usually dreaming of the finished project vs enjoying its young life and looking at it as it’s own life form that wants to go in its own direction. I also suspect that if you’re a hobbyist playing with sticks, you’re going to want to get them young enough to bend the full trunk to get what you envision.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Gosh, I’m merely a four year rookie, so likely older heads will prevail.

To me the answer to that question all depends upon one’s own personal bonsai developmental goals.

When I first started bonsai I was gifted a number of older mediocre quality trees. My first goal was to learn how to keep these alive.

Once done, the second year my goal was to learn the nuances of seasonal horticulture. to do basic pruning and styling. In addition to learn basic developmental and propagation techniques on maples, and azaleas.

..and so on, changing again over the last two years.

It seems to me your desire is to learn how to develop and refine older bonsai. If that’s accurate it’s time to look for some older trees that would do well in your environment.., trading off the sticks in a pot..

Cheers
DSD sends

(They sell lots of sticks in a pot on fb 99 cent bonsai. I’m mostly surprised how much money folks will get for mediocre trees.)

 

[badatusernames]

Gosh, I’m merely a four year rookie, so likely older heads will prevail.

To me the answer to that question all depends upon one’s own personal bonsai developmental goals.

When I first started bonsai I was gifted a number of older mediocre quality trees. My first goal was to learn how to keep these alive.

Once done, the second year my goal was to learn the nuances of seasonal horticulture. to do basic pruning and styling. In addition to learn basic developmental and propagation techniques on maples, and azaleas.

..and so on, changing again over the last two years.

It seems to me your desire is to learn how to develop and refine older bonsai. If that’s accurate it’s time to look for some older trees that would do well in your environment.., trading off the sticks in a pot..

Cheers
DSD sends

(They sell lots of sticks in a pot on fb 99 cent bonsai. I’m mostly surprised how much money folks will get for mediocre trees.)

the auctions are a danger zone haha

this is my first year on there and I feel like I should keep my computer closed through spring before I find myself drowning, def a lot of mediocre stuff but I’m getting the impression is that spring is when it really starts cooking. It might not be every post, but there’s good stuff there I think.

 

[luvinthemountains]

If you had 10 great trees and 10 sticks in pots, which would you share?

Yeah, I considered that possibility, too. It is entirely possible that I have made incorrect assumptions!

Do what you like. Do it for you. Not what others say you should do.

There's some wisdom there. I am not necessarily looking to be told what to do, but more for just what you did - share your journey in a nutshell. Thank you!

let me see how quickly they can develop

This is a factor for me as well. In the end, I think I may well dump the slow-growing sticks like conifers and keep sticks of maples and elms.

It seems to me your desire is to learn how to develop and refine older bonsai.

Fair assessment. Put even more bluntly, I want to make and keep things that I can be proud of throughout the remainder of my experience.

 

[badatusernames]

One thing I’d suggest as someone who has bought “finished” trees - while I’m glad I have them to work on and look at, I would say that having something to work TOWARDS is kind of the fun part in many ways. Maintenance is…. Maintenance. It’s exactly as fun as it sounds, I’m pretty sure.

At least I have something to show people so they don’t think I’m 100% insane showing off stumps lol

 

[luvinthemountains]

A little more of my thought process:

I think that the end result of practice is the accumulation of skills used in doing what was practiced.

(1) When we practice at what will establish radial roots, basal flare, movement and taper, we are building our skills as producers of pre-bonsai.

(2) When we practice at establishing flow/composition, and at developing nebari, branches, and apices (and to some extent healing chop scars), that is when I think we are building skills as bonsai artisans.

I think that my end goal is starting to move toward the latter of the two.

 

[Ohmy222]

1. do what brings you joy and doesn't hurt you financially
2. There is no reason you can't do both. I don't have a high-end tree but have a few nice nice ones and a lot of projects. I like both. Nice trees teach you to ramify and some refinement and the projects teach you how to build from the ground up. The projects also keep me from killing the nice ones with too much love. I couldn't have a collection of 5-10 nice trees because I would constantly be wanted to do something to them. My biggest joy is just wasting time outside and piddling with plants. The projects keep me busy. I have wired plants almost all winter, the nicer trees took me two days. I do think a couple of nicer trees make you feel like you are doing bonsai. I remember when I started i would have a bunch of pre-bonsai stuff sitting around and people would ask. I would say I am into bonsai and they would just look at me funny because most weren't styled and most weren't in pots.
3. you will keep changing, I do all the time.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm growing mainly sticks.
But they are sticks that are from all over the globe. They're sticks that most people don't have.
That's the fun part. I take a lot of pride in growing pitch pines, ponderosa, longaeva, rare junipers and other hard to obtain species. But I don't consider that bonsai, it's just another hobby where I apply bonsai techniques to.

Am I doing bonsai? Absolutely! On ten, maybe twelve trees.

Last year I got myself a car, I restocked my savings and had some money to spend. So I bought larger trees, more developed material. I'm scared to work them hard and do what's needed to get them started. Way less fun, because I can waste 200 dollars with a single wrong cut.

 

[MapleLeaf]

I'll give you the newbie perspective.
The stick in pots look cool.
To the untrained eye, they look great. You have been looking at amazing trees for a decade.
The simple stick has beauty too.

 

[luvinthemountains]

I'm scared to work them hard and do what's needed to get them started. Way less fun, because I can waste 200 dollars with a single wrong cut.

I can absolutely empathize with you there! And I can picture myself wasting 5 years just staring at a tree I spent big money on, stuck for that very reason.

Now I am thinking, though, that "less fun" really just means "I don't have the skill level to make this fun." It's kind of like how I would unquestionably find a black diamond ski run much "less fun" than a lot of other people. There are people on a master level who can have an absolute blast taking cutters to a $10,000 tree without mercy, because they know where, when and how to cut.

So I am not going to start with a $5,000 tree or even a $1,000 tree, but I can get there a lot faster by practicing on a handful of $300-$500 trees than by growing a bunch of $20-$30 trees.

...I think

 

[rockm]

Not being one for keeping my thoughts to myself, I thought that I would put this out there, and seek out others' experiences as well. What I am pondering is whether to keep going with "sticks in pots" projects, or to dump those and focus on acquiring high quality trees that are ready for or even part way into styling and/or branch development. That is clearly not an original thought, but it is plaguing me a bit.

Here I have been doing this for over 15 years now (granted several of those years have been focused on other things) and I still have very little in terms of actual bonsai, let alone real-world experience with bonsai techniques. Over the past year or two, I have acquired several good solid "pre-bonsai" (not sticks in pots) with the intention of correcting that problem. So I have a decent mix now, but I can't shake the feeling that I could just be wasting my time with the sticks in pots. Especially because conditions in Utah don't seem to favor spectacular growth!

I look around at you all, and most of those who I consider advanced amateurs seem to keep a bunch of them around. But the members who have really outstanding trees, I don't see fiddling much with sticks in pots (no offense intended to the rest of you). I am still puzzling over what way to go. Anybody care to share a little bit of their journey thus far?

The 10 or 15 year itch is part of growing bonsai. Most of those doing bonsai for longer, have had this very same thought somewhere along the line. Sticks in pots are fun, but they're not really bonsai and NEVER--for the most part,--WILL BE. That realization hits some sooner than others. I dumped most of my "project" sticks long ago in favor of larger, more advanced material. haven't looked back.

The "one of everything" thing is fun for a while, when you accumulate weird, novel or whatever species in numbers. If you're actually doing bonsai, however, that large spread over such diversity slows you down or outright confounds your bonsai learning since you have to learn a lot of stuff about individual species likes and dislikes and habits--but none of it particularly well--to cover your bases.

You will find TARGETING what you like and going after it is much more rewarding. I decided a while back that pines weren't for me. Killed too many of them, impatience and and laziness mostly. Deciduous trees, particularly southern U.S. deciduous trees (and the occasional broadleaf evergreen native) are where I decided to put my efforts. I also aim to have less than 15 trees too, but that's a running battle...

 

[Wulfskaar]

I'm only in my 2nd year, so I haven't hit that wall yet. I am, however, enjoying the process of growing my twigs (not yet sticks), mostly from seed, as well as learning a lot.

I do think it's a good thing to have trees in different stages. I also have a couple pre-bonsai trees that I am learning on as well. I have no actual bonsai... yet. I will likely get one or two cheapos in the next year or so. Right now it's all about growing as a person along with my baby trees.

I have no allusions of ever exhibiting anything, so I don't really care about having show-ready trees.

 

[Adair M]

The 10 or 15 year itch is part of growing bonsai. Most of those doing bonsai for longer, have had this very same thought somewhere along the line. Sticks in pots are fun, but they're not really bonsai and NEVER--for the most part,--WILL BE. That realization hits some sooner than others. I dumped most of my "project" sticks long ago in favor of larger, more advanced material. haven't looked back.

The "one of everything" thing is fun for a while, when you accumulate weird, novel or whatever species in numbers. If you're actually doing bonsai, however, that large spread over such diversity slows you down or outright confounds your bonsai learning since you have to learn a lot of stuff about individual species likes and dislikes and habits--but none of it particularly well--to cover your bases.

You will find TARGETING what you like and going after it is much more rewarding. I decided a while back that pines weren't for me. Killed too many of them, impatience and and laziness mostly. Deciduous trees, particularly southern U.S. deciduous trees (and the occasional broadleaf evergreen native) are where I decided to put my efforts. I also aim to have less than 15 trees too, but that's a running battle...

I agree with this.

I chose to focus on JBP, and become expert at that. Now that I have, I have diversified. (Way back in the day, I, too, wanted “one of everything”. It’s once I focused on JBP that my skills really grew. So, that’s what worked for me.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I don't think it's an "either/or" scenario. Get some nice bonsai and keep a few sticks in pots, too. In five years, sticks in pots can become very credible bonsai. In 5 years, a chinese elm seed can be about show ready if handled correctly.