Ponderosa Pine Cascade Advice

Baldemotions

Yamadori
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Looking for some advice on this pine cascade.

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fourteener

Omono
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Where's your front and do you want a different planting angle. Figure out those two things and we can be a lot more help. Nice looking tree.
 

dick benbow

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I like the tree and think it ripe with potential. Your cascade branch could use some more backbuds, and that's where larry Jackle's book on pondersosa's would come in handy, telling you how to accomplish that. Thanks for sharing
 

tom tynan

Mame
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The main lower branch does look weak - and you have to be careful when you start to wire and bend that branch as it is likely the first branch to die. It is the important branch if you want to make a cascade. The top is obviosuly very strong with lots of budding - but perhaps too strong for a cascade. So yes..I agree you need the Lary Jackel book on Ponderosa's to learn about back-budding techniques. You need to figure out the best angle and possible fronts before you really start to wire. Good luck...Tom
 

Lazylightningny

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Honestly, I'd be tempted to remove the cascading branch entirely. I think the rest of the tree has much more interest. See what the rest of the posse has to say.

Beautiful tree, and nice piece of property by the way.
 

mc4mc44

Mame
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Honestly, I'd be tempted to remove the cascading branch entirely. I think the rest of the tree has much more interest. See what the rest of the posse has to say.

Beautiful tree, and nice piece of property by the way.

I agree with this. That cascading branch is long with only a little foliage, and the work required to include it in the design isn't really worth it for that branch. The other branches seem much more dense and healthier, and it would take less time to create a quality tree with them.

BUT: Dont just cut it off. Leave it for now. It took 50 years to grow, and you never know where your design might go. you cant grow it back. I would leave it as a backup, and just ignore it until it died or i found a use for it. The tree is early in development, unless your putting it into a show, do you really care about one oddball branch?
 

Rose Mary

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Nice piece of material..don't get in a hurry. Lots of potential and movement.
The bark is great. Keep it healthy and growing and see if the cascading branch will backbud.. cascade with that branch isn't your only option for sure.
Did you collect this specimen? would love to find something like that. Around here find lots of younger ones that are rubbery limbed and hard to get movement set. And takes many years to get bark like that.
Hope you will keep us updated in the future on the progress and direction you take!

Rose Mary
Oregon
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Something to consider...
Oftentimes the pros simply find the best trunk line, exaggerate/tighten it, and frame it with foliage.
 

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Baldemotions

Yamadori
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This pine was purchased this last weekend while I was able to visit Andy Smith out at Golden Arrow Bonsai. So it was collected by Andy. This tree is 60+ years old.

I probably won't touch it with wire until at least next spring at the earliest. The tallest branch needs to be bent down and around though.
 

Baldemotions

Yamadori
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You people are mean :) Brian Van Fleet that makes sense as well.

Wonder what would happen if I kept that branch for now and framed it as you have so kindly illustrated?
 

Potawatomi13

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There is great potential here grasshopper. It so happens that you posted this the same day that I visited Ryan Neils place for the first time and what an eye opener that was. My mental perspective of what a bonsai Could and Should be has shifted nearly immeasurably away from my own feeble efforts growing nursery and flower bed trees. I also bought 2 small Ponderosas from Andy in April/May 14 and have been advised don't repot for 2 years(if I remember right)and do not wire for 2 years(that's a for sure memory from Ryan and Randy Knight).
As I see your tree I would make the trunk arch more perpendicular to the soil looking down its length from base toward the foliage. Also lean it further over the side of the pot. This will bring the lower branch even further down. The lower branch allow that couple years in full sun with lots of fertilizing to to see what back budding you can get. Then wrap the non budded part well with raffia and make some serious shortening and movement curves into it. NOT just curves but serious bends. That is why you wrap well with raffia to protect from the wire as well as from breaking off. This CAN become a very beautiful part of this tree and ultimately be the main focus and beauty of the tree. As to the upper part of the tree this will need to be brought down as well while not overshadowing the lower foliage. Ultimately it might be best to remove all but the lowest 3-5 branches of this part of the upper tree so it doesn't carry all of the weight of foliage to overshadow the actual lower cascade and drastically reduce the weight of upper foliage to help compact the tree. The best of fortune with your new tree.
I am blessed to live only 138 miles from Ryan and Randy so went up to see Randys Fall collected trees in Feb and went back last week with money and bought 3 trees from him. Both trips were literally OVERWHELMING looking at over 100 trees trying to balance available cash, gorgeously beautiful God created trees with real AGE and just to pick which was best of my desired choices. I wound up with 3 medium large to fairly large trees including 1 fantastic tree, one very good tree and one merely good tree. All completely worthy of years of development, care, patience and love. I'm not kidding when I say this was like being a kid in a candy store overwhelming. It makes it really hard to think straight and objectively. If you ever have the chance to visit Randy and Ryan you will NOT be disappointed. MAYBE I'll be able to post some pics later on. Currently I don't know how.
 
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