Ponderosa Pine Rocky Mountains/ SE US?

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Does anyone have personal experience, not I heard this or that, with bringing Rocky Mountain collected Ponderosa Pines into the Southern States, not the high altitude areas but into the Piedmont and rolling hills areas of the SE?

Do they dwindle away over a few years and die. Do they thrive? Do they die outright?

Don't want to invest in a tree and the shipping of it only to find they just don't make it here.

 

[Vance Wood]

They do quite well in Michigan, I don't have any mostly because I don't like them except for the trunks, but a lot of people around here do.

 

[Dav4]

Does anyone have personal experience, not I heard this or that, with bringing Rocky Mountain collected Ponderosa Pines into the Southern States, not the high altitude areas but into the Piedmont and rolling hills areas of the SE?

Do they dwindle away over a few years and die. Do they thrive? Do they die outright?

Don't want to invest in a tree and the shipping of it only to find they just don't make it here.

I moved one, along with 2 collected lodgepoles from MA to N. GA (elev 1200 ft) 8 summers ago and watched them slowly weaken each year...the lodgepoles went first and the Ponderosa went toes up after the 4th "winter" here. Fwiw, no one in my club keeps them either. Lack of winter cold, lack of cool summer nights, high humidity increasing the likelihood of fungal disease... not sure what the big issue is but I'll never bring a collected western pine down here again. I'm sticking with JBP or JRP, as they really do well in this climate.

 

[quietobserver]

Does anyone have personal experience, not I heard this or that, with bringing Rocky Mountain collected Ponderosa Pines into the Southern States, not the high altitude areas but into the Piedmont and rolling hills areas of the SE?

Do they dwindle away over a few years and die. Do they thrive? Do they die outright?

Don't want to invest in a tree and the shipping of it only to find they just don't make it here.

I've kept a nice collected pondy happy just outside of Memphis, TN for several years. According to the book "Ponderosa Pines as Bonsai" written by Larry Jackal the biggest problem we face in marginal areas for the tree is the roots overheating in hot summer weather. During hot spells I keep mine on the ground and shade the pot and haven't had any problems yet. Edit to add: but like Dave mentions, we are outside of the trees 'ideal' range for sure. If mine ever looks like its starting to weaken I like it so much I'll have it over wintered at a northern nursery.

 

[aml1014]

I've kept a nice collected pondy happy just outside of Memphis, TN for several years. According to the book "Ponderosa Pines as Bonsai" written by Larry Jackal the biggest problem we face in marginal areas for the tree is the roots overheating in hot summer weather. During hot spells I keep mine on the ground and shade the pot and haven't had any problems yet. Edit to add: but like Dave mentions, we are outside of the trees 'ideal' range for sure. If mine ever looks like its starting to weaken I like it so much I'll have it over wintered at a northern nursery.

My observations, and experience is different with them. Mine sit in full sun on the bench year round. They see Temps of over 100°f every summer and handle it no problem. I also see them in the mountains here growing in extremely hot, and windy conditions, while at the same time living in a small patch of soil on a boulder. They can handle heat, and drought VERY well.

Aaron

 

[zachkent29]

They do great in Nashville, TN.

 

[Vance Wood]

There is an article supposed to be floating around on the Net by Walter Pall that is supposed to be very good. I would suggest you try to find it.

 

[wireme]

There is an article supposed to be floating around on the Net by Walter Pall that is supposed to be very good. I would suggest you try to find it.

This maybe? I go looking for his posts on collected conifers quite often. http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.ca/2011/03/growing-ponderosa-in-europe-or-on-east.html?m=1
It's a blog post from 2011 so who knows if any opinions there have since been revised.

 

[Adair M]

I have one. I've managed not to kill it.

I have it in a very coarse fast draining soil. But I still probably water it too much!

My issue is the needle length. Our growing season is long, and the tree seems to take advantage of that.

The other issue I have with mine is it's color. It's rather an olive green. Doesn't seem to matter how much or how little fertilizer I give it. And, the needles twist.

I have seen a few Pondys with good color, short needles, and straight needles. I'm thinking that there may be some genetic differences between them that make them more suitable than others like mine.

Anyway, like Dav4 said, there are other species that do better in my climate, so I will work with them.

 

[Vance Wood]

There is an article supposed to be floating around on the Net by Walter Pall that is supposed to be very good. I would suggest you try to find it.

That's the one!

 

[Nomiyama]

I moved one, along with 2 collected lodgepoles from MA to N. GA (elev 1200 ft) 8 summers ago and watched them slowly weaken each year...the lodgepoles went first and the Ponderosa went toes up after the 4th "winter" here. Fwiw, no one in my club keeps them either. Lack of winter cold, lack of cool summer nights, high humidity increasing the likelihood of fungal disease... not sure what the big issue is but I'll never bring a collected western pine down here again. I'm sticking with JBP or JRP, as they really do well in this climate.

And Dave as a side note, if you ever decide to sell your wonderful old RMJ, I have space for it on my benches. Please keep me in mind, and put my name on the list I'm sure you have of potential buyers.

 

[Dav4]

And Dave as a side note, if you ever decide to sell you're wonderful old RMJ, I have space for it on my benches. Please keep me in mind, and put my name on the list I'm sure you have of potential buyers.

You are officially at the top of the list now! Heck, if I sell it to you, I'll even drive it up to Maryland...then I can see your great bonsai collection, maybe swap you for a few of your massive tridents, and stop at Matt Ouwinga's on the way home!

PS The tree isn't for sale at the moment...but I ain't getting any younger if you know what I mean.

 

[Nomiyama]

Hey sounds like a plan and one heck of a cool road trip. I appreciate the consideration, and can relate to you. I turn 40 this year, and Chuhin and shohin may be in my future my friend. Matthew's bonsai collection and pot's are enough to make your head spin in person. I go out a few times a year to help out. Maybe you can hit RockM's bonsai collection on your way back home lol. I haven't had a chance to see his in person yet.

Chris

 

[Dav4]

Hey sounds like a plan and one heck of a cool road trip. I appreciate the consideration, and can relate to you. I turn 40 this year, and Chuhin and shohin may be in my future my friend. Matthew's bonsai collection and pot's are enough to make your head spin in person. I go out a few times a year to help out. Maybe you can hit RockM's bonsai collection on your way back home lol. I haven't had a chance to see his in person yet.

Chris

I felt great at 40, but those first 40 years put a lot of miles on this body of mine, and payback for abusing yourself is a bitch. In a little over a year I'll be on the wrong side of 50... yuck!!

 

[sorce]

Read this on Aml's Pondy thread.

This Ponderosa Pine is actually a sub-specie called Arizona Pine. You can get from 3 to 5 needles and the needles are very thin. They grow really slow because lack of water. They only get water during the summer. It is a ponderosa suited for warmer and hotter environments. In TX, it grows very strong.

Sorce

 

[aml1014]

Read this on Aml's Pondy thread.




Sorce

And he REALLY knows these trees.

Aaron

 

[Cadillactaste]

I have one. I've managed not to kill it.

I have it in a very coarse fast draining soil. But I still probably water it too much!

My issue is the needle length. Our growing season is long, and the tree seems to take advantage of that.

The other issue I have with mine is it's color. It's rather an olive green. Doesn't seem to matter how much or how little fertilizer I give it. And, the needles twist.

I have seen a few Pondys with good color, short needles, and straight needles. I'm thinking that there may be some genetic differences between them that make them more suitable than others like mine.

Anyway, like Dav4 said, there are other species that do better in my climate, so I will work with them.

Researching Ponderosa Pine...their needles curl...when they take on to much water.

 

[rockm]

Does anyone have personal experience, not I heard this or that, with bringing Rocky Mountain collected Ponderosa Pines into the Southern States, not the high altitude areas but into the Piedmont and rolling hills areas of the SE?

Do they dwindle away over a few years and die. Do they thrive? Do they die outright?

Don't want to invest in a tree and the shipping of it only to find they just don't make it here.

They do fine. I've had one for years (but haven't really worked it all that hard. I have many friends that have dozens of the things. Some are fantastic trees that were collected in high altitudes in the Western U.S. and shipped east 12 or more years ago.

In fact, they tend to do TOO well in this area with all its moisture. They push out enormous needles and grow fast. It takes some specific training techniques down the road to control that.

They are also completely winter hardy in the Piedmont zones in Va. and N.C. (And most areas east of the Mississippi) they need NO winter protection. Protecting them from winter can slow them down.

 

[rockm]

Hey sounds like a plan and one heck of a cool road trip. I appreciate the consideration, and can relate to you. I turn 40 this year, and Chuhin and shohin may be in my future my friend. Matthew's bonsai collection and pot's are enough to make your head spin in person. I go out a few times a year to help out. Maybe you can hit RockM's bonsai collection on your way back home lol. I haven't had a chance to see his in person yet.

Chris

If you're in N. Va. let me know. You're welcome to stop by.

 

[Cadillactaste]

My observations, and experience is different with them. Mine sit in full sun on the bench year round. They see Temps of over 100°f every summer and handle it no problem. I also see them in the mountains here growing in extremely hot, and windy conditions, while at the same time living in a small patch of soil on a boulder. They can handle heat, and drought VERY well.

Aaron

Just watched a four part video of Ryan Neil on Ponderosa pine as he did a class and one asked of taking them down south. His comment was, that if they don't have a cold dormant period...they will weaken and die. I believe you have a cold period where your from...correct? More like my climate than not. From the sounds of your friend who does bonsai as well. That...is the key. They must have a cold period for them to stay strong and healthy. No Ponderosa pine genious...just doing some research on them. Its the cold that if you can't provide for them...they die.