Ponderosa, Styling Ideas?

Umeboshi

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I have had this Ponderosa Pine for maybe 4 years now, it came styled but I think that the way it is currently is does not make good use of the tree. Anyone have any ideas? Likely needs a change to its potting angle, unfortunately I just repotted this spring because the soil had started to drain slow and there were always dry spots. I have a couple of directions that I am thinking of but I would love input on what others think.
 

jk_lewis

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I don't understand why Ponderosa pine are so popular as bonsai. In EVERY case the needles are so long they tree looks overgrown and unkempt.
 

Adair M

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I don't understand why Ponderosa pine are so popular as bonsai. In EVERY case the needles are so long they tree looks overgrown and unkempt.
The trunks. Sometimes they can be as gnarly as collected juniper.

But you're right about the foliage. The needles will reduce if there are lots of terminals. Have to treat them the way they treated JBP 50 years ago.

An alternative is to graft on JBP or JWP foliage to replace the native foliage.

The best Pondys that I've seen have been BIG trees.

I have one, a relatively small one. Why? I guess it's because they're in style right now. And, for the challenge of seeing if I can make it work. I had another, a better one, that I sold. Hopefully it found a better home than with me.

Quite frankly, I really prefer JBP!

Jkl, I hope you come to next year's NC Expo. I'm planning on showing my JBP. The one that's my avatar.
 

Djtommy

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Nice tree to work on, seems there are several options.
Hard to suggest though from pictures. But deffinatly potential
first pick a front where you have the best trunkline and go from there, youll probably can get the branches where you want them, third last pic doesnt seem bad and you have an interesting branch at the top.

Enjoy the styling on this one!

Edit
You might have seen this already. But just in case, this is a demo by ryan neil on ponderosa, maybe it can give you some styling ideas, there are 3 videos, this is the first part
 
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Umeboshi

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You might have seen this already. But just in case, this is a demo by ryan neil on ponderosa, maybe it can give you some styling ideas, there are 3 videos, this is the first part

Not sure if I have seen this before, I will check it out
 

Umeboshi

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The problem I see is the trunk rising straight up, 90 degrees, perpendicular to the soil. Either tilted one way or the other, directional or informal will be more pleasing lines, to me.

Good point, fixing this will go a long way to correcting the mundane lower portion of the trunk
 

Umeboshi

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I don't understand why Ponderosa pine are so popular as bonsai. In EVERY case the needles are so long they tree looks overgrown and unkempt.

Needle length is somewhat overlooked due to the bark and interesting features of a collected tree. Sure, you could buy imported JBP that was collected long ago in Japan but $$$
 

erb.75

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I don't understand why Ponderosa pine are so popular as bonsai. In EVERY case the needles are so long they tree looks overgrown and unkempt.
I love it when people say things like "this pine will never work as bonsai, the needles are too long" and then they have like 10 ponderosa pines at home in bonsai pots
 

erb.75

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To me, the large needles don't appeal to me, even in big bonsai....I am giving an eastern white pine a shot this spring, so I probably can't be too critical for obvious reasons! ;)

your tree looks slightly awkward since the needles are so large compared to the tree, just my 2cc
 

jk_lewis

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Needle length is somewhat overlooked due to the bark and interesting features of a collected tree. Sure, you could buy imported JBP that was collected long ago in Japan but $$$

Well, I dunno if you've priced a large Ponderosa lately . . .

That said, the trunk/bark/base of a bonsai may be important, but the bonsai itself is judged by viewers as a whole so it is very hard to "overlook" such a key indicator of size and correct proportions in a bonsai as long, droopy needles.
 

0soyoung

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... it came styled but I think that the way it is currently is does not make good use of the tree. .... I have a couple of directions that I am thinking of ...
I'm curious. What would be making good use of the tree and what are the couple of directions you are thinking of?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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if it were mine, I'd study the tree and identify the best parts of it, which side of trunk, cool bends of olser branches, best bark area. Then rotate and tilt the tree until you find the position that shows the greatest number if ''good parts''. Think about this as a possible front. I agree with changing the trunk angle.

Ponderosa needles do reduce some, but it takes many years and a lot of ramification. The needles do reduce nicely when a scissors is used a few days before exhibition. Cutting the needles is not the preferred method, But it works.
 

Adair M

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Leo,

Cutting a few long needles where most of the needles are short is acceptable. But wholesale cutting of needles on the entire tree looks bad.

At the NC Expo last week, there was a fabulous cascade JBP that had all its needles cut. And they had been cut for a long time. All the tips were brown.

Ruined it.

Even if they had been recently cut, it would have looked bad. Things like that don't show up in pictures, but in person, they're noticeable.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Leo,

Cutting a few long needles where most of the needles are short is acceptable. But wholesale cutting of needles on the entire tree looks bad.

At the NC Expo last week, there was a fabulous cascade JBP that had all its needles cut. And they had been cut for a long time. All the tips were brown.

Ruined it.

Even if they had been recently cut, it would have looked bad. Things like that don't show up in pictures, but in person, they're noticeable.
You have no idea how torn I was about letting this tree go to the show with cut needles. The owner has one of the finest bonsai collections in the state, and can grow short needles with his sheers behind his back, but for some reason, he cuts them. Boon knows the owner; he used to come to Bham to work with the him long before the intensive program existed.

The pine was in my garden for a couple weeks before the show and I contemplated re-cutting them ahead of the show to at least have fresh tips, but they were already cut pretty short, and I just didn't have time to do it. if we send a pine next year, it won't go with cut needles; we'll have more than 2 months to prepare the display...or preempt the cutting!

You're right about this too...it's a great bonsai.
 

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Adair M

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It's a great tree, Brian. I'm worried about its health. The needles were very yellow. Some twigs were dying. All the needles were yellow on their way to brown on some of the twigs. I'm thinking it needs a repot next spring. Might also have some needle cast, I don't know.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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It's a great tree, Brian. I'm worried about its health. The needles were very yellow. Some twigs were dying. All the needles were yellow on their way to brown on some of the twigs. I'm thinking it needs a repot next spring. Might also have some needle cast, I don't know.
I'm not here to second guess his care; he's grown it from a seedling for the last 25 years, so he knows the tree well. Cascades are tough to keep 100% happy all the time. I agree on not cutting needles, and would have liked to see the 2-3 yellow shoots trimmed off prior to show.
 

Umeboshi

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I'm curious. What would be making good use of the tree and what are the couple of directions you are thinking of?

Good questions. The way it was styled leaves an awkward split in the upper trunk where it diverges into two trunks equal in diameter (where the yellow splits from the red below) and one of the trunks shoots straight down and is quite straight with branches at near exact right angles. It looks odd. The direction of the trunk which runs vertical for a short length than upward at a relatively low angle I don't quite like either. Both of these two factors are not making good use of the tree in my mind.

Here are two ideas I have which use approximately the same front as originally styled. I am not skilled at virtuals so please excuse the ugliness below.

The first one tilts the tree to the right and forward, more forward than it appears in the images. the trunk in red will come up and more forward over the main trunk. The second split of the trunk in yellow comes up a great deal and is jinned.

DSC_0226a.jpg
DSC_0226ab.jpg
The second idea tilts the tree to the left and drastically forward. This makes the angle of the trunk even less severe than original which I wanted to avoid but something about this option appealed to me despite. The upper portion of the trunk in red is brought up and squashed down upon itself. The ugly trunk in yellow is mostly hidden by the main trunk from this angle but I would try to put some movement in it anyway to break up the straightness. Its lower branch forms a far left drop branch.

DSC_0248a.jpg
DSC_0248ab.jpg
I have some other ideas using other fronts but I just don't have the time to do any more poor attempts at virtuals.

Are either of these promising?
 
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