Pot for my repot next spring.

[Kullas]

I'm already looking to next spring for a repot on my parsons juniper. I am looking for pot that will fit the tree. This is what I found. Think this would look ok?

Mica Bonsai Pot - Rectangle19

Buy bonsai trees and accessories online at BonsaiBoy.com...

www.bonsaiboy.com

Here is the trees

 

[sorce]

Seems big. What size are the current pots?

Seems Expensive.

I wouldn't shop there, not that you can't, I just don't like supporting, "hobbysai", "fakesai", "mallsai" places.
I know most of the "truesai" professional places are mostly even more, dare I say, too, expensive.
But there are a couple good middle of the road places too. Locals and folks here fit into that category too.
Specially if your heart is set on a mica pot, prices should be rather close anywhere, but the best one would be used from a friend on tree barter!

To me, these trees either need a compacting, which would make that pot way too big, or a literaticizing, which would make it the wrong shape.

Take your time.

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

I'm already looking to next spring for a repot on my parsons juniper. I am looking for pot that will fit the tree. This is what I found. Think this would look ok?

Mica Bonsai Pot - Rectangle19

Buy bonsai trees and accessories online at BonsaiBoy.com...

www.bonsaiboy.com

Here is the treesView attachment 432404View attachment 432405

I don't see anything wrong with the pot if its true mica.

This place has a good selection of imports, you might find something else you might like.

http://www.hfimports.com/

 

[Kullas]

Seems big. What size are the current pots?

Seems Expensive.

I wouldn't shop there, not that you can't, I just don't like supporting, "hobbysai", "fakesai", "mallsai" places.
I know most of the "truesai" professional places are mostly even more, dare I say, too, expensive.
But there are a couple good middle of the road places too. Locals and folks here fit into that category too.
Specially if your heart is set on a mica pot, prices should be rather close anywhere, but the best one would be used from a friend on tree barter!

To me, these trees either need a compacting, which would make that pot way too big, or a literaticizing, which would make it the wrong shape.

Take your time.

Sorce

Thanks for the reply. On these im trying to take my time and learn along the way. This website was just what I was looking at, and yes if it says bonsai in the name its mostly expensive. They are in 3 gallon pots but rootbound pretty bad. The soil percolate ok but not great. I think I can squeeze by until next spring. Any suggestions on pots? It dont have to be mica could even be plastic. I'm satisfied with the trunk size and just want to get them in something that looks more the part.

 

[Paradox]

I'm already looking to next spring for a repot on my parsons juniper. I am looking for pot that will fit the tree. This is what I found. Think this would look ok?

Mica Bonsai Pot - Rectangle19

Buy bonsai trees and accessories online at BonsaiBoy.com...

www.bonsaiboy.com

Here is the trees

I would not go from those nursery can directly to a bonsai pot. You need something intermediate in size and shape. Reducing the root mass from that nursery pot to a bonsai pot could kill the tree. You should get something that is square or rectangular but deeper than the bonsai pot and put the trees into that for 3 years or so (depending on how well they recover) then transition to the bonsai pot.

You can build something out of wood if you are handy and inclined to do that, otherwise a plastic box of some sort that is the right size can work well as a temporary training pot.

*EDIT* actually, the mica pot is deeper than I originally thought and might be ok but I would be careful about how much root mass you have to cut off to fit it in there and have something a but deeper just in case. Best to be prepared rather than just cut more roots off then you should to get it to fit. If you can cut the root ball in half and carefully comb out the roots to get them flatter you might be ok. Ill emphasize being careful and not to remove too much soil from them at once if you can avoid it. Those both look like decent trees and Id hate to kill them because you had to stuff them into a pot that isnt really deep enough for them yet.

 

[Kullas]

I would not go from those nursery can directly to a bonsai pot. You need something intermediate in size and shape. Reducing the root mass from that nursery pot to a bonsai pot could kill the tree. You should get something that is square or rectangular but deeper than the bonsai pot and put the trees into that for 3 years or so (depending on how well they recover) then transition to the bonsai pot.

You can build something out of wood if you are handy and inclined to do that, otherwise a plastic box of some sort that is the right size can work well as a temporary training pot.

*EDIT* actually, the mica pot is deeper than I originally thought and might be ok but I would be careful about how much root mass you have to cut off to fit it in there and have something a but deeper just in case. Best to be prepared rather than just cut more roots off then you should to get it to fit. If you can cut the root ball in half and carefully comb out the roots to get them flatter you might be ok. Ill emphasize being careful and not to remove too much soil from them at once if you can avoid it. Those both look like decent trees and Id hate to kill them because you had to stuff them into a pot that isnt really deep enough for them yet.

Thanks. I was looking for a pot that I could untangle about half or a little more of the bottom of the root mass and some on the sides to begin with. I dont want to trim much at all off the roots.
My thinking is take half or a little more of the old soil from the root ball should put me within the 4.5 to 5 inch depth of a pot. Am I close or way off base?
I dont mind building something actually have some treated 1x6 well 5/4 boards left over from a deck.

 

[Pitoon]

If it were mine I would saw off the bottom half, rake out the top half, and repot. Then let it rest for at least a year untouched.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks. I was looking for a pot that I could untangle about half or a little more of the bottom of the root mass and some on the sides to begin with. I dont want to trim much at all off the roots.
My thinking is take half or a little more of the old soil from the root ball should put me within the 4.5 to 5 inch depth of a pot. Am I close or way off base?
I dont mind building something actually have some treated 1x6 well 5/4 boards left over from a deck.

I tend to think it should be ok if you can do it without removing more than 50% of the roots. It depends on what you find when you start digging around the root mass. You want to have plenty of small feeder roots close to the base when you are done. If it's mostly larger thick roots, it could be a problem.

Maybe I am over cautious but I'd like to have an alternative prepared just in case.

 

[Paradox]

If it were mine I would saw off the bottom half, rake out the top half, and repot. Then let it rest for at least a year untouched.

This is probably what I would do as well.

After that year, you can do some pruning and styling IF it recovers well from the repot. This means it is growing vigorously, not sulking or stalled. I would not repot again for at least 3 years or more.

 

[Kullas]

Sounds like a plan now to find a pot or container that fits the bill and wait until the new growth starts next spring.

I don't see anything wrong with the pot if its true mica.

This place has a good selection of imports, you might find something else you might like.

http://www.hfimports.com/

I checked them but alot of there stock is sold out. I will keep checking back. There prices is decent also.

I guess of all the pre bonsai I have I like these the best. I guess its the closest thing I have in my eyes to actually being a bonsai. I'm going back on the 7th and see if she still has so.e more or different stock. Hard to pass up for $18

 

[Potawatomi13]

Tree needs grow box or ground growing to develop bigger trunk. While mica pot may be stiffer than anderson flat is likely too small for trunk development.

 

[Kullas]

Tree needs grow box or ground growing to develop bigger trunk. While mica pot may be stiffer than anderson flat is likely too small for trunk development.

What size trunk would you shoot for?

 

[Paradox]

Tree needs grow box or ground growing to develop bigger trunk. While mica pot may be stiffer than anderson flat is likely too small for trunk development.

If Kullas is happy with its current size then no it doesn't. Not everyone wants trees that weigh 50 pounds plus

 

[Kullas]

Here is a little better shot of them. There decently sized trees.

 

[Paradox]

They are fine and plenty big enough. Again, if you're happy with the size they are now, they don't need to be grown bigger. Big trees are nice but when you start needing two people to move them and/or as you get older, big trees become a real pain in the arse to deal with

 

[Kullas]

Yes with these 2 I'm happy with, now most of my other stuff it needs lots of years. I hope this lady still has some of these left and I may grow one of those out. But for these 2 its time to start the process of getting them in a pot.

 

[sorce]

Any suggestions on pots? I

Sounds like a wood build is going to be your best, read most flexible, bet. Though I do feel like a round is it's future and I'm into getting the shape right ASAP. Depth too, 5" seems oceanic!

Though, it's kinda hard to tell anything about these stylewise without a game plan.
Got a drawing or anything?

I feel like these fit kinda nicely into this idea about a layer Shibui was talking about here. Not meant to be discouraging, just pointing out the mindgame you must work to overcome.

Big box store Acer Palmatum

I noticed our local had carried regular acer Palmatum this year. They are not grafted. Would this make decent bonsai material?

www.bonsainut.com

They're large, cheap...$18 is a go ham price BTW, pretty interesting....

The problem is there isn't much cohesiveness to any design possibility.

I reckon too, and this is probably the most important conundrum to overcome with this particular material...

Here's a new concept worthy of a Resorce.

I believe you have to always be thinking about Horticulture and Design in every minute.

Think of it like a DNA Double Helix....In 2d for simplicity's sake.


One leg is Horticulture, one Design.

Something like and Elm has a nice tight spiral that never really gets away from itself.

Juniper on the other hand, particularly ones in this state, have an overly wide spiral, which corresponds to the level of difficulty/length of time it's going to take to safely bring them back together, where you will find this cohesiveness of design and safe horticulture practice.

These trees have you sitting on the widest part of the widest helix possible.

It's important to be comfortable here, seeing that next crossroads where things mesh again, but understanding it should take a long time to get there.

I reckon you CAN jump the Hort leg to a small pot for design, but you have to remember how long it will take the top design to meet it with Horticulture.
You CAN jump the Design leg on top with a severe cut or bending work, but you have to remember how long it will take to horticulturally confine the roots to a small pot for design.

Personally, well factually actually, the only unknown is the roots, so I always decide to ignore the top design, completely, in order to KNOW what the roots are doing, and align(goal wise not physically) them to fit the long game plan, where you can continue to knowingly nurture them towards the end goal.

The problem with taking suggestions on what to do to the roots is that it is currently an unknown, an unknown with the possibility of 2 extremely different scenarios that could easily spell life or death.

Let's say those trees have been sitting on a weed barrier outside of top water range but within range of wicking up puddled water, all the good feeders to keep you safe will be within the bottom couple inches of the pot.

Let's say they were sitting within top water range and since they no longer fully wet through to the bottom, you have enough feeder roots in the top half inch to cut everything below that off.

The fastest way to "correct" is through educated observation.

The important thing to remember is you're on the wide part of that helix.

I have never been so wide on the Helix, this that has to do with Juniper strength coming from bunched foliage. I think it's because as top relates to bottom......(I believe it's preprogrammed as a mirror image and changed only because environment is never perfect) since juniper have a direct relationship with foliage and root, I believe the more sparse the foliage on top, the easier it is to accidentally cut a root associated with the section of top most healthy, thereby killing the tree, or worse, the planned design.

So it may prove a bit more risky for you to go ham.....

But since I started repotting with 100% tops (as defined by a perfectly healthy nursery tree, yours are like 65-80) and leaving them in full sun watering daily like nothing happened, except they are in the future size and shape pot already, I haven't had any failures.


I don't consider how much root is removed as the risk.
I consider the Repot the risk.

So setting yourself up for a second, or step down, potting is foolish IMO.

Growing new roots outside the final pot zone is necessitating their future removal which brings risk back to killing associated top with future repots.

I really don't see any lack of growth in the tops, plenty to style.
Well except for where they are neglected, and you can see my order of favoritism in that pic, the ONLY reason any are hurting is due to neglect nothing else.
Except for that one in the training basket that I SUPERHAMMED, straight effrooted, and thrown in small DE cuz it's "bad" and all I had. It grew best. Go figure.

I'd effroot the shit out of one at the next full moon. If it dies, I'll owe you a pot! But you gotta try one the next full moon too!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Let's say they were sitting within top water range and since they no longer fully wet through to the bottom, you have enough feeder roots in the top half inch to cut everything below that off.

Haha...see "watering bs"....

What happens to all those feeder roots that would've allowed you to go to a half inch pot when you have it in a 5in pot for year and allow the first half inch to dry out? They die!

We f ourselves.

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

They are fine and plenty big enough. Again, if you're happy with the size they are now, they don't need to be grown bigger. Big trees are nice but when you start needing two people to move them and/or as you get older, big trees become a real pain in the arse to deal with

I really don't understand why some immediately say grow it out to thicken up the trunk. I can understand for a stick in the pot, but those trees already have a decent size trunk.

 

[Kullas]

Sounds like a wood build is going to be your best, read most flexible, bet. Though I do feel like a round is it's future and I'm into getting the shape right ASAP. Depth too, 5" seems oceanic!

Though, it's kinda hard to tell anything about these stylewise without a game plan.
Got a drawing or anything?

I feel like these fit kinda nicely into this idea about a layer Shibui was talking about here. Not meant to be discouraging, just pointing out the mindgame you must work to overcome.

Big box store Acer Palmatum

I noticed our local had carried regular acer Palmatum this year. They are not grafted. Would this make decent bonsai material?

www.bonsainut.com

They're large, cheap...$18 is a go ham price BTW, pretty interesting....

The problem is there isn't much cohesiveness to any design possibility.

I reckon too, and this is probably the most important conundrum to overcome with this particular material...

Here's a new concept worthy of a Resorce.

I believe you have to always be thinking about Horticulture and Design in every minute.

Think of it like a DNA Double Helix....In 2d for simplicity's sake.
View attachment 432454

One leg is Horticulture, one Design.

Something like and Elm has a nice tight spiral that never really gets away from itself.

Juniper on the other hand, particularly ones in this state, have an overly wide spiral, which corresponds to the level of difficulty/length of time it's going to take to safely bring them back together, where you will find this cohesiveness of design and safe horticulture practice.

These trees have you sitting on the widest part of the widest helix possible.

It's important to be comfortable here, seeing that next crossroads where things mesh again, but understanding it should take a long time to get there.

I reckon you CAN jump the Hort leg to a small pot for design, but you have to remember how long it will take the top design to meet it with Horticulture.
You CAN jump the Design leg on top with a severe cut or bending work, but you have to remember how long it will take to horticulturally confine the roots to a small pot for design.

Personally, well factually actually, the only unknown is the roots, so I always decide to ignore the top design, completely, in order to KNOW what the roots are doing, and align(goal wise not physically) them to fit the long game plan, where you can continue to knowingly nurture them towards the end goal.

The problem with taking suggestions on what to do to the roots is that it is currently an unknown, an unknown with the possibility of 2 extremely different scenarios that could easily spell life or death.

Let's say those trees have been sitting on a weed barrier outside of top water range but within range of wicking up puddled water, all the good feeders to keep you safe will be within the bottom couple inches of the pot.

Let's say they were sitting within top water range and since they no longer fully wet through to the bottom, you have enough feeder roots in the top half inch to cut everything below that off.

The fastest way to "correct" is through educated observation.

The important thing to remember is you're on the wide part of that helix.

I have never been so wide on the Helix, this that has to do with Juniper strength coming from bunched foliage. I think it's because as top relates to bottom......(I believe it's preprogrammed as a mirror image and changed only because environment is never perfect) since juniper have a direct relationship with foliage and root, I believe the more sparse the foliage on top, the easier it is to accidentally cut a root associated with the section of top most healthy, thereby killing the tree, or worse, the planned design.

So it may prove a bit more risky for you to go ham.....

But since I started repotting with 100% tops (as defined by a perfectly healthy nursery tree, yours are like 65-80) and leaving them in full sun watering daily like nothing happened, except they are in the future size and shape pot already, I haven't had any failures.View attachment 432462
View attachment 432463

I don't consider how much root is removed as the risk.
I consider the Repot the risk.

So setting yourself up for a second, or step down, potting is foolish IMO.

Growing new roots outside the final pot zone is necessitating their future removal which brings risk back to killing associated top with future repots.

I really don't see any lack of growth in the tops, plenty to style.
Well except for where they are neglected, and you can see my order of favoritism in that pic, the ONLY reason any are hurting is due to neglect nothing else.
Except for that one in the training basket that I SUPERHAMMED, straight effrooted, and thrown in small DE cuz it's "bad" and all I had. It grew best. Go figure.

I'd effroot the shit out of one at the next full moon. If it dies, I'll owe you a pot! But you gotta try one the next full moon too!

Sorce

Lots of good info to digest here. I believe a square wood box would be my best bet that way when its time it will be easy to pot into an appropriate pot.
I haven't done very much at all to these only minor trim on one of them. Short term, this year get it growing strong. I did add some wire to open things up to allow some back budding (which it is doing). It seems to have some good new growth up top.
In cleaning up the tree when I got it. I raked back soil and the fine roots extend all the way to the edge of the pot all the way around. What the roots are doing inside is unknown.
Midterm (5 years) correct pot, trim down and style.
Long-term refine
One of these has a date on the next full moon on May 16 thats the next one. I will give it a go.
I do have one question. What is effrooted? I have a clue but not sure.
I will try to come up with a drawing. I will never be a good at bonsai because I can't draw. I can see it in my head maybe its just in my head. The pics don't do them justice. I look at them and can see the whole tree and the design I have in mind then I look at the pics and say there's no way. It dont even look like the same tree.