Potential?

[bonsai-novice]

Hello,

I have been growing these four oranges from pips for about 3 years now?

My original intention was just to grow them as normal trees but was wondering whether oranges would make good bonsai?

Does anyone have any suggestions? From my point of view, none of them are particularly attractive so I imagine they would be better for growing into ordinary trees. I would be greatly if anyone had any suggestions though ?

 

[bonsai-novice]

I also have this thing growing. I don't have a clue what it is (any ideas would be great?).

It is so long and spindly I think it is really ugly. Once again, I don't suppose anyone would know if anything can be done to it to make it look better? Or is this a no-hope tree?

 

[TomB]

Citrus species used for bonsai are normally smaller/dwarfed varieties, rather than full sized oranges. You might be better off growing them as large potted trees (or planting out, depending on your climate).

Your 'thing' is some variety of two needle pine.

 

[Shibui]

Agree on both counts.
Any tree can be a bonsai but not all trees should be bonsai. So much depends on your standards and what you expect your bonsai to look like. It will take many years for those seedlings to develop real trunks and be inspiring bonsai but you can have orange stick in pot type bonsai immediately if that's what you want.
Pines have special pruning needs. They do not usually bud on bare wood so by the time they have reached the stage of having long, bare branches like the one shown it can be real challenge to get good compact growth to make it look like a real tree. Again, if you are happy to have something like an octopus as bonsai this one will suit.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Also, FYI, oranges grown from pips may not seed true to the parent. They may not even flower or fruit. If you want the whole "mini orange tree" look, consider a citrus that occurs naturally like a kumquat or calamondin.

 

[sorce]

You haven't put your local in your profile yet!

I think your carea is just as important as the type of tree. Orange Can work, but the wrinkly leaves and long extending shoots say it may be a futile effort if you can't find a bit more health. Where is it being kept?

Pine looks promising, since it is alive in that small pot with all them weeds!

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Kumquat leaves are too big for bonsai, too. Only Calamondin has bonsai-sized leaves and fruit.

 

[bonsai-novice]

I don't really care if the oranges produce fruit or anything, I just wanted to try growing some for the greenery, and to see if I could successfully grow them. I planted a lemon pip when I was about 7 and that grew really well, until about 2 years ago when it got infected with weird limpet like insects.

Sorry, I am from the south of England, so I don't think putting the oranges outside is much of an option, especially in winter. I just keep them in my room.

Is it bad for the tree to put out longish bits of new growth then? I assumed that is just what it did when it was in its growing season. I keep on pinching out the ends, but they don't seem to do much bushing up, so I am not really sure why?

I don't suppose anyone knows why the orange leaves would curl up like that? They are not near radiators, and they are not in direct sun-light. I don't think I under or over water them either?

Does anyone know whether the pine tree would be able to from pads of needles if it is cared for as it grows in future, or will they still just stick to the ends?

sorry about all the question, and thanks for all the help

 

[Paradox]

Very large leaves means it will only be convincing as a larger sized bonsai.
Not sure how well citrus leaves reduce or if they do at all

 

[bonsai-novice]

I don't know if these are of any help, but just to demonstrate the size difference n they seem to be able to produce quite small leaves when they want to, but I dont know if that was just a fluke or what?

 

[hinmo24t]

look up Nigel Saunders lemon, grapefruit bonsai

i personally dont care too much whats traditional or technical with bonsai to let leaf size
stop me from having fun (Nigel's style too in some respects).

its all subjective anyway.

citrus, they grow a lot of straight sections so it takes time to cut them back
and get taper. crossing branches have to be cleaned often. go for it. i have a navel orange im about to bonsai
and im going to get into kumquats this year and will bonsai from a mother plant.

 

[bonsai-novice]

Thanks for the suggestion. they are very interesting videos.

 

[LittleDingus]

I don't really care if the oranges produce fruit or anything, I just wanted to try growing some for the greenery, and to see if I could successfully grow them. I planted a lemon pip when I was about 7 and that grew really well, until about 2 years ago when it got infected with weird limpet like insects.

...

Is it bad for the tree to put out longish bits of new growth then? I assumed that is just what it did when it was in its growing season. I keep on pinching out the ends, but they don't seem to do much bushing up, so I am not really sure why?

...

You might reconsider growing a variety that produces fruit you can eat. Reason being, it takes years to grow out a tree large enough to make a convincing bonsai...why not enjoy the fruit during the wait I got several key lime pies, some lime cheesecake and some lime salsa out of my lime tree this year...not to mention what I used to adorn my beer glass Anyway, yeah, if you don't care about fruit, growing from seed is fine...it's still a citrus

As far as "Is it bad for the tree to put out longish bits of new growth", it can be a sign of too little light, yes. There is a "normal" leaf size and internode distance that is species dependent. Many species will stretch those limits when receiving too little light. Leaves can get larger...especially wider to increase photosynthetic surface area. Branches can stretch longer trying to get to a place where the light is better. Your tree looks normal to me as far as leaf size and spacing compared to my citrus anyway. Leaf color can be another tell of too much/too little light. The leaves on your tree look too dark to me...indicating maybe it it getting too little light. Don't take that as gospel...color can also be species dependent and photograph color is often not true.

 

[TomB]

Does anyone know whether the pine tree would be able to from pads of needles if it is cared for as it grows in future, or will they still just stick to the ends?

You can form pads of foliage, but they will be at the end of the branches - it won't 'fill in' the existing bare sections.

Look at this https://crataegus.com/2021/01/22/design-tightening-for-a-bunjin/ for potential inspiration.

One important thing to consider if you proceed with this tree is removing whorl growth (multiple branches from the same point). At any point the trunk/branch should split into two, no more - that's a fundamental design principle applicable to most bonsai.

Also, the tree looks pretty weak at this point.

 

[bonsai-novice]

You can form pads of foliage, but they will be at the end of the branches - it won't 'fill in' the existing bare sections.

Look at this https://crataegus.com/2021/01/22/design-tightening-for-a-bunjin/ for potential inspiration.

One important thing to consider if you proceed with this tree is removing whorl growth (multiple branches from the same point). At any point the trunk/branch should split into two, no more - that's a fundamental design principle applicable to most bonsai.

Also, the tree looks pretty weak at this point.

Thanks for the link. That is a pretty tree; and thanks for the tip about removing the branches, I did not know that you were supposed to do that

 

[bonsai-novice]

You might reconsider growing a variety that produces fruit you can eat. Reason being, it takes years to grow out a tree large enough to make a convincing bonsai...why not enjoy the fruit during the wait I got several key lime pies, some lime cheesecake and some lime salsa out of my lime tree this year...not to mention what I used to adorn my beer glass Anyway, yeah, if you don't care about fruit, growing from seed is fine...it's still a citrus

As far as "Is it bad for the tree to put out longish bits of new growth", it can be a sign of too little light, yes. There is a "normal" leaf size and internode distance that is species dependent. Many species will stretch those limits when receiving too little light. Leaves can get larger...especially wider to increase photosynthetic surface area. Branches can stretch longer trying to get to a place where the light is better. Your tree looks normal to me as far as leaf size and spacing compared to my citrus anyway. Leaf color can be another tell of too much/too little light. The leaves on your tree look too dark to me...indicating maybe it it getting too little light. Don't take that as gospel...color can also be species dependent and photograph color is often not true.

The older leaves are a pretty dark green, though it probably doesn't help that the pictures were taken without natural light. They live in a fairly bright room - I would have thought as bright as you can probably get without being in direct sunlight? Could the dark leaves be because it is deficient in something?

 

[LittleDingus]

The older leaves are a pretty dark green, though it probably doesn't help that the pictures were taken without natural light. They live in a fairly bright room - I would have thought as bright as you can probably get without being in direct sunlight? Could the dark leaves be because it is deficient in something?

Possibly a deficiency of photons...possibly genetic. If they are inside, I'd suspect lack of photons.

Depending on the efficiency/anti-reflective coatings/number of panes/etc...windows can cut a lot of light. I have a lux meter. I've done the test where I set it just inside my sliding glass door and take readings with the door open and closed with the meter in direct sunlight. That window cuts about 30% of the total intensity. Then take into account that windows cast a "shadow"...that is, direct light through the window moves across the room during the day. Unless your plants are directly against the window, much of the day they are likely in the shadow from the window frame and not in direct light.

All that adds up.

When my lime tree is outside in the summer, the leaves get nicely pale green. In the middle of winter, like now, it's leaves are dark like yours. It sits in a south east facing window where it gets direct sunlight for several hours a day...but a fraction of what it gets when it is outside in the summer. My tree rarely grows new foliage in the winter. In fact, it usually drops most of the leaves it has! But the one or two times it did bud out in winter, the new leaves were huge!

It bounces right back once it can get back into full, direct, outside sun. I do have to be careful moving from inside to outside so it doesn't sunburn, though.

Since you've had yours for 3 years and you're happy with how they are growing, there's not much reason to change. If you want to grow/style them as bonsai, you might get more vigorous growth and hence quicker development by putting them outside in the summer if you can.

You might also consider planting them at an angle to add some interest even of you keep them houseplants. I'm not growing mine for "bonsai", but I did plant it at an angle for interest. Here's a picture. It's looking pretty scraggly now The canopy was nice and dense before I brought it inside and it dropped 3/4 of its leaves for the winter.



I've got it buried now, but it's even starting to grow a bit of radial nebari to match this planting angle. It's still a long way from "bonsai" though!

 

[leatherback]

Look at this https://crataegus.com/2021/01/22/design-tightening-for-a-bunjin/ for potential inspiration.

wow, brilliant post.

 

[AJL]

Hello,

I have been growing these four oranges from pips for about 3 years now?

My original intention was just to grow them as normal trees but was wondering whether oranges would make good bonsai?

Does anyone have any suggestions? From my point of view, none of them are particularly attractive so I imagine they would be better for growing into ordinary trees. I would be greatly if anyone had any suggestions though ?

Nice as ornamental plants but IMHO non-starters as bonsai because in UK unless you can keep them in a heated greenhouse( perhaps moved outdoors in summer) theyre never going to thrive and will always be leggy due to low light levels etc,so enjoy them and get yourself something more suitable as indoor bonsai eg ChineseElm, Jade tree etc

 

[bonsai-novice]

Possibly a deficiency of photons...possibly genetic. If they are inside, I'd suspect lack of photons.

Depending on the efficiency/anti-reflective coatings/number of panes/etc...windows can cut a lot of light. I have a lux meter. I've done the test where I set it just inside my sliding glass door and take readings with the door open and closed with the meter in direct sunlight. That window cuts about 30% of the total intensity. Then take into account that windows cast a "shadow"...that is, direct light through the window moves across the room during the day. Unless your plants are directly against the window, much of the day they are likely in the shadow from the window frame and not in direct light.

All that adds up.

When my lime tree is outside in the summer, the leaves get nicely pale green. In the middle of winter, like now, it's leaves are dark like yours. It sits in a south east facing window where it gets direct sunlight for several hours a day...but a fraction of what it gets when it is outside in the summer. My tree rarely grows new foliage in the winter. In fact, it usually drops most of the leaves it has! But the one or two times it did bud out in winter, the new leaves were huge!

It bounces right back once it can get back into full, direct, outside sun. I do have to be careful moving from inside to outside so it doesn't sunburn, though.

Since you've had yours for 3 years and you're happy with how they are growing, there's not much reason to change. If you want to grow/style them as bonsai, you might get more vigorous growth and hence quicker development by putting them outside in the summer if you can.

You might also consider planting them at an angle to add some interest even of you keep them houseplants. I'm not growing mine for "bonsai", but I did plant it at an angle for interest. Here's a picture. It's looking pretty scraggly now The canopy was nice and dense before I brought it inside and it dropped 3/4 of its leaves for the winter.

View attachment 350400

I've got it buried now, but it's even starting to grow a bit of radial nebari to match this planting angle. It's still a long way from "bonsai" though!

Well, that is very informative. I never knew that Windows could reduce the amount of light that much. I have a feeling that my trees my orange trees always put out new growth in the winter as opposed to the summer? They also rarely sheds any leaves. They will occasionally drop one or two, but they have never had a mass shedding.

Something I have noticed with my trees, and it looks like it has happened on your tree too - They look like they have all grown a few inches of trunk, then stopped and put out a few branches all from the same place, if you get what I mean? Is this just a quirk of citrus trees as my lemon tree did the same thing, or is it something to do with how I have been growing them?